Independence for Scotland?

[Hammerlikedaisies]

First Minister Salmond thinks more people are in favour than pre 1997.

I can't make my mind up. I hate Nationalism of any sort, but independence might well be the best thing for Scotland, if you want a more peaceful, humane government - because let's face it, the Tory-Lib Coalition is no fun for anyone. On the other hand, I'd hate to break up the UK.

What do you think?

I thought that since it was the Scottish king that cooked up the Union in the first place, it would have to be England (or the rest of the UK) that declared independence from Scotland rather than the other way around.

But seriously, given what's happened to small countries like Ireland and Iceland recently, if I were a Scot considering this I'd want to be very sure that it would be going solo for the right reasons and that independence would be sustainable rather than symbolic.

Your economy would have gone to the wall when HBOS and RBS nearly failed!

Economically I can't understand how you would be able to support yourselves?

Unless the entire population of Scotland has been asleep for the last 2 years & missed the Ireland fiasco - I'd say Scotland will be quietly tearing up the 'independence' banners.

Yes.

MadameC, the UK economy has gone to the wall anyway.

I think it's flawed logic to point out individual examples of small countries which have not done well out of the recent global economic crisis and use them as a case against independence. There are other small countries out there who have not done an Iceland.

I've been in favour of independence since Thatcher.

I would prefer to be shafted economically than be part of the union any more, tbh. And actually I see no reason why it couldn't be sustainable.

Switzerland, Luxembourg and Denmark do well.

In any case, by the time it happened, if it ever did, the financial crisis would be over - though we are far too reliant on the financial services industry imo.

This thing about not being represented in parliament irks me. During the eighteen-year plague that was Thatcher, I don't think we had one Tory MP from Scotland.

Equally, it seems unfair that Scottish (+ Welsh, N Irish) MPs should be allowed to vote on purely English matters and vice versa - unless of course there are repercussions for the other nations.

If Scotland did go independent, we would have a chance to choose a government we wanted, and the Labour Party north of the border is a different animal from the Westminsteristas. I hope.

Also Green issues are enormously important to us - we have a lot to lose as regards our green spaces, whereas so many of yours have already been built on.

Without Scotland, what would happen to the Labour party? Would they ever beat the Tories in England?

Without the Scottish Labour MPs, England would be delivered up to the wolves - no doubt about that.

And what would Wales do then? They'd really miss us, and then would the whole Union break up do you think?

I voted Tory, and remember on election night feeling that Scotland may deliver us more years of Labour rule and more erosion of civil liberties. Fortunately, enough english people voted Tory and LibDem.

So, Claig, do you support independence for Scotland?

I think it is up to the Scottish people. If I was Scottish, I think I would want independence. I don't believe the propaganda that Scotland can't survive on its own. The Scots have given the world so many inventions that I am sure they would be very successful. Democracy is about people having power to make their own decisions. The Scots could choose what they want and the English could choose what they want. We know that the Scots don't vote much for Tories, but the English like them. Everybody would get what they want, except the Labour party.

The Labour party might well get Scotland.

That is a possible negative. But it wouldn't be for long; the Scots would soon wake up and start voting Tory.

yup. wave them goodbye. the rest of the uk will be richer and we won't have to listen to alex salmons ever again...

I don't think we should go towards independence, at least not now.

The creative sector in Scotland isn't strong enough and the financial services sector would take fright at the further left politics and anticipate unfavorable taxes. Therefore, I think there'd be quite an exodus of money and talent in the early years that might be hard to come back from.

Also, when Scots talk about independence they nearly always seem to do it with a generalised anti-Englishness, which doesn't fill me with confidence.

Fortunately the number of people here in Scotland who want independence is now very low - 23% at the last survey in 2010. I can't think of anything worse than independence, and have only met a tiny handful of people who are in favour of separation.

Thing is, 'attracting investment' in Scotland so often means uninhabitable, ugly new buildings in prime locations, green field sites threatened with 'development', whole towns entirely dependent on tourism, and rapacious bankers. We'd be well rid, I reckon.

The anti-Englishness is a problem, LemonDifficult - which is why I'm probably not in favour of independence. I think we should work together for the common good, not cut England adrift to sink or swim.

I think people are being conned by the greens. They really carry out the wishes of the establishment i.e. no new development for people, just leaving green fields for rich landowners. They are against development and harm the interests of ordinary people. That's why Brown and Blair and all the rest are all green now. If the bankers wanted to develop land then of course they would be able to, just as they were able to be bailed out by Brown.

If Scotland went independent, the people would probably soon realise that they have been conned, and may even change their voting behaviour.

Claig - read the Green manifesto. Land owned and protected by the people. Rural jobs, etc etc that's what they want.

No airports, no new housing developments, no industry without green taxes, more gloabl warming taxes. They are the establishment. They are against progress. They want the people kept down.

Claig: 'No airports, no new housing developments, no industry without green taxes, more gloabl warming taxes.' - can't see a problem with that, as long as enough housing is provided for the homeless (eg adapting existing empty buildings or using brown field sites).

We've got loads of airports in Scotland, btw.

'They' are the establishment? The Greens don't even have one MSP any more, I don't think.

Lots of 'the people' want to be green, though.

read the history of the Green Party. You will see that it grew out of the People party, heavily influenced by ex-Tory activists and rich people. Not the swampy types we see on TV, who think they are challenging the system. They believe what Gordon Brown tells them "we have 50 days left to save the planet".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Green_Party_of_England_and_Wales

It's a long, slow march for them. Rome wasn't built in one day. Sir Jonathon Porritt, a green guru, tells us that one day it will be seen as irresponsible to have more than two children. It's about "sustainaboloty", they say, the same words used by the People party way back then.

LemonDifficult, lots of 'the people' are influenced by what they see on TV and by Gordon Brown's statements that "we have 50 days to save the planet".