Supporting disbaled people unsustainable?

[SantasMooningArse]

here

I hate this sort of uncertainty. I have trained part and full time for seven years now alongside two disabled kids to get to the point where I was hoping to train in social work in 2013- but if DLA vaniushes it will be unaffordable. I feel we have lived up to every Tory ideal, battling redundancy, my DH's illness and the boy's SN with constant battles to get back on line, and now I think I might just give up after all- can;t train until thenas no childcare means DH must be working from home to care and he dosn;t qualify until then, and we will need to move and cannot do so with the SNU realistically until 2013 (a SW trained where we are in Wales cannot practice in England but we need to get back to family badly for support and help, both for them as they age and us as we try and fit in work).

Working in tesco woudln't ever cover the huge costs of disability childcare.

I acknowledge that this is a left wing article, there's a thread on this in SN with a less reactionary letter from teh NAS C&P's to it, but is this how big society was meant to work? Sorry disabled people, there's no money- saldy when it comes to ds3 there's no cure either- can I never afford to die then? Will there be any care left for him?

"TBH I would outlaw private heath care, bloody queue jumpers the lot of them. My son got hurt skiing (ankle injury) 10 week plus wait on the NHS his company had private healthcare and he was seen at a time he liked with 7 days. wrong wrong wrong"

Why is consumer choice a bad thing? If people want to/can afford to use private healthcare why shouldn't they be allowed to

I have private insurance because morally I feel I should pay if I can, frees up money for those who cannot afford to pay.
I would introduce a levy, if you earn over £50,000 then you pay an extra 1% towards the NHS or else you opt out and go private freeing up the NHS for those who need it.
Touch wood I haven't had to claim and hope I'll never need to.

no money! then fuck off and die"

I've lived in America and you know what that simply doesn't happen.
The debt sheets for the hospitals are a joke because the people that owe them money either die owing or else will never pay up. But they are treated.

Why is consumer choice a bad thing? If people want to/can afford to use private healthcare why shouldn't they be allowed to.

Because it allows queue jumping (like my son did) based upon ability to pay, that's why.

I would introduce a levy, if you earn over £50,000 then you pay an extra 1% towards the NHS.

Great idea but lets forget the private opt out.

I realise not everyone is going to be equal, we cant all drive fuck off cars or live in Surrey in big houses but it is wrong that money can buy advantage in health and education

I've lived in America and you know what that simply doesn't happen.
The debt sheets for the hospitals are a joke because the people that owe them money either die owing or else will never pay up. But they are treated.

I will bow to your knowledge on this. However I did see an article where a liver transplant was refused because the patients insurance had run out among other cases of that nature. Also hospitals will bankrupt a patient who cannot pay any other way.

Is this true ?.

newwave- your suggestion of banning private healthcare is very authoritarian and does really fit in a western liberal democracy. People can spend their money on what they want, if they want to spend money on private healthcare then that should be their perogative.

Hudd, I realise not everyone is going to be equal, we cant all drive fuck off cars or live in Surrey in big houses but it is wrong that money can buy advantage in health and education.

I will stick by the above.

I guess our disagreement is clear, I believe that people should be able to spend their money on what they want (within reason) without state interferance and you don't.

Hudd, yes it is, I dont believe money should be able to buy advantage in heath and education you think the well off should be able to queue jump.

That is morally wrong, I take it you are a Tory?

No I'm a Liberal Democrat supporter

More than 50% of US bankruptcies are caused by healthcare (that link's from 2005, it's just the first I found). "Sicko" shows a medical insurance executive testifying to Congress (iirc) about her actions refusing to pay for treatment and thus killing the patient. She was so ashamed she proclaimed it publicly.

Another wonderful feature of the NHS is that, while it doesn't preclude private health care, should you wish it, it sets the bar sufficiently high that insurance cos can't take your money and run: cos you'll only shell out the premiums if the company actually delivers. I remember some years ago an insurance company here trying the US trick of saying,"Oh if you had headaches years ago then your brain tumour was a pre-existing condition." Everyone interviewed for the news segment was boggle-eyed at the ludicrousness, and the insurance co got the sort of publicity no-one wants...

Bringing it back to DLA, you can have an integrated health service (not just sickness service) if you're prepared to see disability/sickness homecare as an investment not a cost.

Bollocks.
"cos" 1 = companies
"cos" 2 = because
"co" 3 = company

hudd, so was I for many years not any more though since the entryist Orange bookers have shown their hands.

Clegg is only a social liberal, economically he is a Tory through and through

newwave- if you don't mind me saying that surprises me. Your proposal for banning private healthcare is very illiberal and you oppose the euro as well.

Actually I'm going to be rude and bugger off, sorry. Have used up my supply of brain cells till about the middle of next week and am well knackered. But still reading you all...

[steps awaaay from the keyboard]

hudd, why are you surprised, private healthcare is a way of a section (normally the well off) taking advantage of other less well off.

Most private operations (not all) are carried out by NHS surgeons outside of their contracted NHS hours, if there was no PHC then the surgeon could supplement his NHS salary by doing more NHS operations. This would allow for an orderly queue without money taking anyone to the front unfairly.

The company I work for gives PHC to the general manager level and above these are the best paid people, those below general manager dont get PHC yet earn the least, that encapsulates all that is wrong with the concept of PHC.

My son gets PHC and he is a banker, the shame of it :) :)

Its just consumer choice is a fundamental aspect of liberalism so it just seems strange that a liberal would wish to restrict it. Similarly I don't think the way you wish to tell doctors that they shouldn't work privately and thus restrict their trade fits into liberal ideology either.

I also get PHC as a result of the company I work for and although I've never needed it I wouldn't hesitate to use it if needed.

In most things I have no problem with consumer choice, houses, cars etc.

Your view seems to be it is ok for healthcare to be based upon money and not need, I doubt there is a millionaire awaiting a hip operation but a pensioner can wait over a year but you see that as acceptable.

I see queue jumping in education and healthcare as anything but liberal.

I also get PHC as a result of the company I work for and although I've never needed it I wouldn't hesitate to use it if needed.

And if this meant getting cancer treatment sooner than someone who does not have PHC and who may even have been waiting longer, you would be morally ok with that.

I don't think that state provided healthcare should be based on money and it isn't. I do think that people should be given the right to bypass the state and go private if they wish to and individual freedom is the hallmark of a liberal society IMO.

I wouldn't have any problems using PHC even if it put me ahead of others no.

I wouldn't have any problems using PHC even if it put me ahead of others no.

hudd, then that is the difference between you and I, a different moral outlook.

individual freedom is the hallmark of a liberal society IMO. in some aspects (healthcare and education) it is the hallmark of a selfish society not a liberal one.

Why is individual freedom in health and education not a feature of a liberal society

hudd, you have my reasons for thinking that, it is not liberal to buy advantage in ......

As always I enjoy the debate but I am tired and have to go to work tommorow, still I finish on the 16th unitl Jan 6th, yipee :o

I don;t think the NHS will go pay at use tbh; I think the party that tries that rute goes under forever. It is sacred to the UK.

I am also not opposed to private ehalthcare; when i worked in nursing it was my experience that usually teh differences between private and NHS were speed of access for non emergencies and the availabiltiy of sarnies to your family at 3am. If yu were an emergency admission the difference was usually pure luxury tbh.

I did have PHI at one point myself; when I needed it (damamged back, couldn;t really walk more than a few yards) they found loophols to prevent me getting treatment at a hospital I could access with the isue (they wanted me to go to Kent from Somerset, unable to travel in a car with pain.....) so I wouldn't trsut them again, and tbh many of the people we care for on ehre wouldn;t be touched with a bargepole anyhow.