Supporting disbaled people unsustainable?

[SantasMooningArse]

here

I hate this sort of uncertainty. I have trained part and full time for seven years now alongside two disabled kids to get to the point where I was hoping to train in social work in 2013- but if DLA vaniushes it will be unaffordable. I feel we have lived up to every Tory ideal, battling redundancy, my DH's illness and the boy's SN with constant battles to get back on line, and now I think I might just give up after all- can;t train until thenas no childcare means DH must be working from home to care and he dosn;t qualify until then, and we will need to move and cannot do so with the SNU realistically until 2013 (a SW trained where we are in Wales cannot practice in England but we need to get back to family badly for support and help, both for them as they age and us as we try and fit in work).

Working in tesco woudln't ever cover the huge costs of disability childcare.

I acknowledge that this is a left wing article, there's a thread on this in SN with a less reactionary letter from teh NAS C&P's to it, but is this how big society was meant to work? Sorry disabled people, there's no money- saldy when it comes to ds3 there's no cure either- can I never afford to die then? Will there be any care left for him?

1. Since when was DLA anything to do with "rewarding efforts to find work"? Disabled people have additional living costs because of disability regardless of whether we're working or not. They just vary in nature.

Since ESA is now going to be set at the same level as Income Support after the first year, ie at the minimum the govt reckons a fit human being can actually survive on, how are we going to pay these costs?

Quite importantly, what will happen to us if we can't?

2. The no 1 putative reason for destroying DLA is "simplification". Hardly, under your scheme.

3. If you have depression or lack confidence a "work support mentor" may be useful. If you can't sit upright for 30 mins, not so much.

This fairyland "people just need encouraging" model of dis/ability has always seemed to me exactly like the "signposting to other services" stuff above - enough to get us off the (anyway teflon) consciences of the nation without being enough to actually be useful.

It'a not now this. I think that's what they want.

A mentor can help with findsing adaptations for people with disabiltiies- we used to do a lot fo that when I was HE mentor: it dfoesn;t ahve to be all psych, practical is good too.

the reason I am getting for destroying DLA is that people use it as a crutch to stay out of work: don;t belvie it for a second but that seems to be the message they wish to send.

You did get I didnt mean you or anyone with depression earlier right? you still seem offended by me and I didnt mean it the way you took it at all. I;d be slating my own DH if I did.

And thats gonna come over as coz you disagreed with me isn;t it

not what I meant either

Argh

I was really trying to get a discussion going

In fact it now seems I need to be desptahced to a snowy area with my large shovel!

Offended at you? Nope, nothing personal: you proposed an alternative system, I'm shredding it!

But if you don't believe the message that DLA is being used as a crutch to keep people out of work, why are you supporting that message in practice by suggesting changes to DLA? I don't get it.

(that's not to say DLA is set in stone till the hills fall into the sea, but this specific set of changes)

Oh no, come back to the warm by the fire! (Only been here 5 mins, am scaring the nice people away already. Sorry.)

Leave DLA alone?
How are they going to do that and make the savings they want? That's what it boils down to, making savings. They are going to fiddle around with it until a certain proportion of claimants lose money. They are going to get away with it because benefit claimants have been demonised by the media. No votes to be lost in punishing scroungers. Lots of votes to be lost in means testing winter fuel allowance....

Thing is ThisIs they ahev already started the consultation process not us- it's open until February. If we can't ahve what we would want then I want something that might just work for my boys IYSWIM. DS3 can't work, ds1 could probably self employed with help.

I don;t trust this lot any farther than I an throw them, which is why I want to find answers that they may actually go for IYSWIM but leaves most vulnerable people in safety.

But I do suppose a bit of my own agenda as a carer who wants to work gets stuck there sometimes.

Actually, sorry generally for bursting out into full rant. It's normally poor old DP (works away) who gets his ear chewed down the phone after such "initiatives". Thank you for letting me spout here instead, so I can be serene Cage-dweller when he calls today...

SMA I feel for your situation and your DH/DCs. It's crap, isn't it?

Dont be silly, here is exactly teh place for it! It's what MN is for and why many of us come ehre.

In Rl I am quite timid LOL.

Sort of anyway

thisisanicecage I think we are all quite comfortable with ranting here, just be aware, this is a pretty calm thread. They usually get much worse, I'm amazed we haven't had hundreds of posts from people who know a friend of a friend's uncle's sister's daughter's friend who is fraudulently claiming DLA/ESA and therefore all disabled claimants are liars and cheating the system.

santasmooningarse (have I told you how much I love your new username?) I think we all have our own agenda. Both myself and my DH have invisible/erratic illnesses, so we are vulnerable enough with the current system, so I am biased towards seeing what will affect us the most. Doesn't make any of our views less valid.

Tbh I would love support to get back into work, I miss it, hate feeling useless. However I hate the thought that it will be used to beat us with, "do this or else", when I already don't trust them to know their arse from their elbow.

There are so many people out there already getting hideously wrong diagnosis from idiots like ATOS, as shown by the amount of people initially declared fit for work on ESA, then later found unfit through the tribunal.

They need to prove to us that they
a) know the difference between DLA and ESA
b) want what is best for vulnerable people, rather than their bloody figures
c) are aware of the huge range of ways different disabilities can affect different people
d) understand that lots of jobs cannot or will not make allowances
e) understand that people are suited to different jobs, and that disability can limit that further

It's not as simple as "here's a job, do it".

Sidenote - mine was a renewal for DLA, when I first alied 3 yrs ago, I had the CAB help me to fill in the form, when I sent in my renewal, CAB couldn't hel before form needed to be back, adults with disabilities team at SS refused to help (much like the carer I'm meant to have to help me prepare the dc's dinner that has never materialised from them, or the wet room as I don't even have a shower...), so I had to do it on my own. I obviously did a crap job of exlaining my needs, got refused, appeal was turned down, can't reapply for 6 months until February. And even then, unless I find someone who can hel me fill in the forms, I don't expect to get anything.

Oh, and don't get ESA either cos DP works. So our only income is DP's £16k wages and tax credits.

That was me that questioned what you were saying about depression earlier. Sorry.

I do suspect those with hidden disabilities like mental health problems are going to be the victims of this "initiative".

Five years ago I was on incapacity benefit and DLA for severe mental health problems. Mental health care is appalling, they are so overstretched.It takes years even to get the correct diagnosis.I gave up all my benefits and went back to work without any "incentives "
The reward for me was getting my pride back. Not having to explain to every new person I met why I didn't work. There is a real stigma to being mentally ill.
I don't believe many genuine mental health claimants need poverty to force them back to work.It can take years to get well. If they are forced to work before they are ready it will make them worse.

Lougle anything I can do to help with forms just ask. I don;t know where you are but may be close or pass by, if not via mail.

"I don't believe many genuine mental health claimants need poverty to force them back to work."

No, definitely not. In fact, with mental health problems, there is a huge risk that it would mean a loss of life.

Oh, and here is a friend of mine story.

A friend of mine had a nervous breakdown and applied for ESA. It was refused. The questions and points system shocked me as I reckon I could easily have been refused when I was severely mentally ill. £65 per week for someone whose problems are likely to be severe and enduring is just wrong.It's hard enough just as a temporary measure for healthy jobseekers.

I agree Kaloki, there are going to be suicides.

Right third attempt at a reply amonst the deleting ability of a flying mr potato head LOL

Pasty absolutely agree with all you say- Dh had Dh taken the Gps advice to pack work in earlier I doubt things would ahve got so bad for him, he was in haulage which is a notorious industry anyway. It took a redundancy to force a career change and he knows now if he refuses help again he ahs to go utnil he is well; there ahve to be limits. I;'d stillcare about him and support him, but either with him in a bedsit or MH unit; it was too damaging. Luckioly knwoing that emans he asks for help these days far earlier.

My kid's Sn is invisible as well- ds3 you can tell, but ds1 not unless he ahs a meltdown. he does however have eating disorders and severe aggression issues with his ASD but it depends as with many asd kids on when you se him whether you get NT or SN behaviours displayed. however as hte behaviour comes on instantly he needs 24/7 watching. Even then we've been too late a few times and missed some awful things.

One thing I am very keen on is that the Government start some extra training help for people to get back into work if they choose, I think it's an answer for many and we've fair bankrupted ourselves for it. I try and sell it to the Tories as 'this reduces state dependency'- what I really mean is 'disabled people and their carers could often benefit from having this as an option' . I think it has to be approached that way, sadly, for this bunch to care.

And sorry not lougle, loudlass LOL- dopey tonight.

And agree about suicides; Dh tried to drive our car over a cliff, had called to say goodbye etc. It stalled.

My friend's son hung himself whilst depressed over £300 debts. £300. Bastard illness.

Sancti - I may take you up on that offer in February. TBH, my seizures have 'slowed down' while I've been pregnant. But I'm concerned about how bad they're going to be once I've had the baby - my worst seizures were in the first year after having my last dc 7 years ago, so it could get much much worse. deep joy.

When is it you are due LL?

I can't reapply till the end of February, as I have to wait 6 months.

Wrong end of the stick there! DC4 is due 16th January.

Oh I know, Kaloki. I've been going, "Must not join Mumsnet. Must not join Mumsnet!" just so I don't get sucked into one of those and burn clean out in an incandescent fury that would light small a town - briefly.

Best laid plans!

Loudlass, last time I was expecting to appeal, we sat down ridiculously far in advance with Google and phone book to look for more disability charities in our area. (DP had to take a day off work to help: the irony...) Don't know if you might strike lucky with this?

It's depressing, this need for an advisor to fill in these forms, isn't it?

There was someone on a thread here who worked for the DWP, iirc, and while it was kind of her to say "Oh, phrase it like this," or "Make sure you get these words in", I found it pretty disturbing that she seemed content to play buzz-word bingo in her dayjob, instead of using her professionalism and human judgement to translate the non-expert forms into DWP-values. Which was surely the meat of her job?

Surely this behaviour tilts the system towards fraudsters - if you're well and experienced, you're much more able to fashion a winning scorecard than someone exhausted and impaired? What's more, if DWP staff behave like machines responding to checkboxes, they'll soon find themselves replaced by one. Maybe that's already happened to her.