How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

Old people weren't meant to live as long as they have either but we aren't lining them up to be shot, times change.
If they didn't call it NI, it would be windows tax or some other name it always has been so.

Governments generally are bastards, again is this news ? If the pensioners want t protest get out onto the streets with the students, they have less to lose and i bet the police won't beat the shit out of Aunt Doris.

To get a pension of £200 a week aged 65, you must save the following a month.

Aged 30 --- £144
Aged 35--- £189
Aged 40 --- £254
Aged 45 --- £356
Aged 59--- £529
Aged 55--- £ 883

///////Old people weren't meant to live as long as they have either but we aren't lining them up to be shot, times change.////

No, but we are letting die of hypothermia related illness, without challenge.

Apathetic Britain. Nothing changes.

Surely the system into which people have been paying all their lives has provided them with medical care for which they didn't require private health insurance, council services to ensure their environment was reasonably clean, they had water safe to drink, a police service they could call upon any time day or night, and a welfare system that provided them with a safety net in case they found themselves out of work or facing another huge life crisis. (This is not the point at which we all start criticising the individual components of this, but simply acknowledge that, for all its faults, our country provides us with these things.) On top of all of this there is also a pension pot, but a horribly dwindling one which simply cannot be expected to support the over-65 population for an average of 15 years, whilst still providing the above resources for the population under-65.

I think the point that you are making is that it's not fair. No it's not. But neither is a 5 year old dying from drinking dirty malaria riddled water, a 25 year old woman being hanged because her husband wants rid of her, a 45 year old soldier being blown to bits in a war he doesn't believe in, or a 65 year old being denied health care because they haven't got private medical. However, this 'not fair' is something that is far easier to resolve by oneself.

As individuals we can plan for our future. For several decades now it has been apparent that the welfare state was straining under the pressure. Anyone with a bit of common sense should have avoided relying on the state pension.

You can't say your NI payments should have been for your pension. Not unless we can go back in time and claim back any money spent on you by the NHS, or the council, or the emergency services.

The money only goes so far. You couldn't predict if you needed an operation, or your house caught fire. But you could predict that one day you were likely to be old and out of work.

so op why no comment about either riven or my post about disabled people?
or is it all right if they are forgotton

//// My mum never paid a penny. Not ever./

Your mum spent her life raising her kids, right or wrong ?

My mum is retiring next year and she can't believe how much money she will be getting. She also, frequently says, that she wishes "old people would stop bloody moaning as most of them are loaded".

She did, however, choose to retire at 65 when legally she could have retired at 60. Maybe some other pensioners could have worked another few years? Most of them were physically able to.

LisasCat - There isn't a pension pot, and (AFAIK) never had been. There is an allocation from the current years income to pay that years pensions.

/////so op why no comment about either riven or my post about disabled people?
or is it all right if they are forgotton////

No it isnt right, disabled people and the general unemployed are treated like shyte in this country.

Ivanhoe - Old people paid ALL their tax/NI. This was ALL spent (and then some) - so why are they now entitled to more of what is being paid in now?

so why not shout about them, they have no voice, and no savings(as they are ofetn way too poor

/////My mum is retiring next year and she can't believe how much money she will be getting. She also, frequently says, that she wishes "old people would stop bloody moaning as most of them are loaded"./////

Most are not loaded, but even if pensioners were all millionaires, they would still be entitled to a decent higher basic State pension.

And as for the figures you give that need to be saved for a pension of £200 per month, I think my monthly amount is pretty much dead on what you've quoted. It's 5% of my salary matched by 9% by my employer. I think setting aside 5% of what I earn right now is a small price to pay fr the peace of mind of knowing that I will be self-reliant.

A few years ago I found myself needing to claim JSA, then Maternity Allowance and Housing Benefit. For the other 11 years of my working life I've always paid tax and NI. To my mind, those 2 balance out. I paid in, and when I was desperate, I received. My old age is up to me to cover, no one else.

////My mum is retiring next year and she can't believe how much money she will be getting//////

How old is you mum now ?

and I think I'm right in saying that pensioners are one of the few groups to have benefitted from the recent changes made by the coalition government as they have reinstated the earnings link to the state pension.

if you are seriously expecting the users of this site, who have in general had benefits cut or taken away, to be sympathetic to a group that have not only been allowed to keep their benefits (winter fuel etc) but have also had them improved then you are seriously deluded.

you might be better off finding another forum to debate on.

My mum will be 65 but she could have retired when she was 60 but exclaimed she wasn't a "bloody idiot".

Ivanhoe - I think the issue is that people were lied to when they were told that paying NI guaranteed you a pension. Now that's turning out not to be true you want to be compensated. But why should that come at the expense of the current generation who KNOW that they aren't going to be getting it back in turn?

So you mum basically is a young pensioner ?

So your mum will receive the basic State pension and, according to you she will be happy to bve means tested for handouts from the state, yes or no ?

She wasn't a moron - she paid into her company pension for the past 25 yrs. She also paid her mortgage and has savings. I have no idea about whether she will be means tested but she wouldn't have a problem with it. Why would she?

She loves her free bus pass - which she got when she was 60 and working full time in a good job. She has travelled all over Scotland with it - reckons it has saved her thousands.

///////For several decades now it has been apparent that the welfare state was straining under the pressure.//////

Where the hell is all this coming from ?

The media, the pudits, Thatcher, Blair, Brown, or all of them, and the coalition ?.

Please dont tell me you thought of it yourself ????????