What is this "British" culture of which you speak?

[GrandhighBOOba]

Have been lurking on another thread in which the failure or otherwise of multiculturalism has been discussed, and it has got me thinking; what is this "British" culture that is being discussed, which some posters want immigrants to comply with?

I don't see that there is one culture in Britain - the differences in lifestyle, language, beliefs and attitudes from one area to the next are so large. For example, the difference between living in the south of England as compared to central Scotland, or the Scottish Isles, or the Welsh valleys. Or the difference between being working class or middle class, the difference between being urban or rural. Is this not multiculturalism?

What makes one culture more important than another?

So are you saying that no country has a culture? That France has no distinct culture? That France is the same as Britain? that France has no traditions that unite and bind the French people? no shared history, no shared development, no uniqueness, no unique food, no unique wine, no unique cinema? etc.

Britain has developed a unique culture over hundreds of years, with unique literature and art and customs and conventions. Britain is different to Italy. The urban and rural parts of Britain share a common British culture. It's not multiculturalism, because they are part of the same common culture.

It's not about which culture is more important, all cultures are important. But if you deny that Britain even has a culture, then you are saying that British culture is unimportant. Would you say the same about other countries' cultures?

The 'culture' of Britain has always been diverse because we are a nation of disparate tribes and an empirical past. A quintessentially English afternoon tea (as outlined in 'The History Of The World in 100 Objects' recently) involves tealeaves... a drink from the Indian subcontinent ... sugar... an ingredient from the West Indies and porcelain... a material created in China. And curry is our favourite national dish.

I think what we want is not so much people to be subsumed in our culture and forget their own..... we don't expect newcomers to suddenly go Morris Dancing or caber-tossing.... but to respect our values and laws and to take part in the day-to-day activities of the community. Not remain separate.

Language is fundamental. And whilst some parts of the UK may enjoy speaking Gallic or Welsh, and whilst other parts of the country have distinct dialect everyone's common language is English. Fail to understand English and it becomes impossible to participate or communicate.

'imperial past' I should have said :)

Claig - I am not saying there is no culture, I am saying there are many, I assume the same is true of France.

TBH, I don't think that the culture of the Scottish Islands is the same as that of the South of England - they do not share a common history, cuisine, religious practices, mythology etc, yet both are British.

Chil - the language point is interesting, although I think particularly in some areas of Wales they would object to the notion that they "enjoy" the use of Welsh - for many it is their first language. But that aside, culture has to be more than a shared language - after all, America, Canada, Australia and many other countries use English as their main language, yet have separate cultures to Britain(s)

Yes but isn't there one common culture, that contains the common parts of the many cultures? and isn't this shared common culture different to the French shared common culture? Isn't there something unique about Britain that is not shared by France and vice versa?

I think there are lots of unique things in Britain, but I can't think of any that universally apply to the whole of Britain. What are the common parts which apply equally on Lewis and in Essex? I can't see a common British culture. Maybe there is an English culture, a Scottish culture etc, but even then, I think that is too simplified. I know for example that coming from central Scotland, I would struggle to adapt to life in the isles, and equally feel like a fish out of water when I visit my sister in England.

same laws, pubs close at the same time. Drive on the left hand side of the road, unlike the rest of Europe. Same greetings. Same love of gardens (I used to work with French people and they think we all have gardens and are like Sherlock Holmes). Same mannerisms.

Culturally we have a lot more in common with Australia, Canada and other English-speaking historicaly white anglo saxon countries due to our imperial past connections than we do with France or Japan. Imperial Brits and other British Isles emigrees took their culture with them wholesale so we still feel relatively at home in these places, even though they have their own traditions that they've developed independently.

Within Britain there are many cultural traditions that we've acquired down the centuries. Religious, regional, national, class-related, culinary, artistic.... we're a fantastic hotch-potch of them all and we love preserving all the whacky differences from cheese rolling to Wakes Weeks. But we all speak one language (if grudgingly in parts of North Wales), we have a national school curriculum, a national BBC & therefore we have the same points of reference and a high level of commonality. Even in the Scottish Islands.

Same sense of humour

same cultural references, Shakespeare, the Beatles and the Beano

same crap motorway food

same ripoff prices
same jobsworths
same politicians and their expenses

"What are the common parts which apply equally on Lewis and in Essex?"

It's often the prosaic verging on banal that we have in common. We learn about the same authors & playwrights at school. A Lewis kid and an Essex kid will know how many wives Henry VIII had or who was Prime Minister in WWII. But it's also stupid stuff like knowing who Bruce Forsyth is or the catch-phrases of Little Britain! Being funny about the way tea is made. Moaning about Tesco. Cross the Channel and all of these things mean nothing to anyone.

What precisely makes you feel like a fish out of water when you visit England from Scotland? Can you identify it?

Different laws and different pub closing hours on Lewis, claig. The W Isles are a good example, as culturally they are indeed very different. V few Beatles refs, diff sense of humour, no motorways...

Coming to live in Scotland did make me realise that my English-centric views of British culture were, if not flat out wrong, far too blunt.

History-wise the facts may be common, but the interpretation varies widely, and is very cultural. For example, I grew up catholic in Liverpool, and was taught in History that the Reformation was a Very Bad Thing, and that HVIII breaking with Rome was also Very Bad.

Took going to university to realise that wasn't the universal take on it.

yes there are huge differences between Scottish and English people, the Union has only existed for several hundred years, and the Shetland Isles are different to Basildon town centre. But I guess the Basildonians will serve as decent a cup of lukewarm tea as the Shetlanders.

both probably enjoy a McVities Digestive

Shortbread, claig.

Scotland has separate laws, and pubs shut much later

Scotland does not follow the national curriculum. No SATs, no 11 plus, no middle schools. No GCSEs, no A levels.

BBC is similar up here, but not identical.

Different areas use different greetings and mannerisms - try doing a double cheek kiss up here and people will give you a very strange look.

You have a point about similarity of some cultural references - Beatles, Shakespeare etc, I will have to have a think about that one. My initial thought is that we share many of these references with other countries too, America for example. Out of interest, how heavily does Robert Burns feature in English education? (genuine question, I don't know if it is none at all, or a huge amount)

HabbiBOOOO, you're right about the Catholic/Protestant divide, but there is still a common Christian heritage, with the same traditions for Christmas and Easter. Also the history that unites us will be WW2 etc. where the interpretation will probably be the same. We are probably also both united in thinking that Gordon Brown's time was up and we have too many different bins, and we possibly both read the Daily Mail.

Different National School Curriculum in Scotland than in England & Wales Chil1234

GrandhighBOOba - got in before me :)

We never covered Burns, but we never covered much apart from the Tudors to be honest, and that was a grammar.

We don't learn that much about Henry VIII up here. More Mary Queen of Scots, William Wallace. English Kings are taught in a very different context up here

Claig - you've taken the OP a few times - but what do you think is the culture - humour is different depending on the part of UK your are.

I feel foreign in the company of a Scottish person - completely foreign but yet we're UK.

I went to university in Wales and I have to say I felt as foreign with them as I do with Italians yet we are all UK.

humour and biscuits do not a united culture make.

I feel different from the welsh and the scottish. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing though.

We are multicultural from our union. We are a multicultural country.