What is this "British" culture of which you speak?

[GrandhighBOOba]

Have been lurking on another thread in which the failure or otherwise of multiculturalism has been discussed, and it has got me thinking; what is this "British" culture that is being discussed, which some posters want immigrants to comply with?

I don't see that there is one culture in Britain - the differences in lifestyle, language, beliefs and attitudes from one area to the next are so large. For example, the difference between living in the south of England as compared to central Scotland, or the Scottish Isles, or the Welsh valleys. Or the difference between being working class or middle class, the difference between being urban or rural. Is this not multiculturalism?

What makes one culture more important than another?

If you see someone standing at a zebra crossing, waiting to cross the road, in the Piazza Venezia in Rome, and they are still standing there waiting 2 hours later, then you know that they are certainly English and very possibly Scottish. They soon learn to ditch their English ways and to follow that old adage, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". They learn that you have to blindly start crossing the road, because only then will the Romans bring their cars to a screeching halt and allow them to cross the road.

exactly right strandeadatsea, of course there is a huge commonality of culture. Those of us who have lived abroad have really experienced it.

Oh I know the Brits here by what they wear (football shirts, badly fitting shorts, tank tops etc), the amount of tattoos they have - and also by the colour of their skin. Usually very pale white with patchy areas of sunburn. And by how much beer they drink. Or alcohol generally.

Actually that's not fair. That's only a certain type of Brit.

what foreign land are you in? Essex?

Ha ha. No believe it or not the Caribbean! I think Virgin must have been doing some cheap deals or something.

Oh crumbs I can't say that can I? Agh. How do I avoid ending up on the "I think MN should be renamed Snobsnet" thread?

Although I have holidayed alongside them and mostly they are great, good parents etc. Much less annoying than the very loud and obnoxious Americans.

Not that all Americans are like that of course...agh it's a minefield!

Yes it sounds like you will have to move up into the hills to avoid the British beach invasion during peak holiday periods. The best thing to do is to pretend you are French, start gesticulating and just keep repeating "je ne parle pas anglais". I have had to make use of that on occasion.

So swapshop and tiswas (yep I'm also middle aged so remember those).

But anything else as I don't see the Italians the Spanish identifying their culture by two tv programmes that the majority of their under 20's would have no clue about.

Claig - I know Italy well but as you you know it better I'm sure you speak far better Italian than me - and know the locals - would they honestly tell you they identify their country by how they organise themselves in a shop waiting to buy something and by programmes they had when they were little?

Nope - they are ITALIAN - they have their food and their huge religion.

Our knowlege of our own cultures pales in to comparison.

"Oh I know the Brits here by what they wear (football shirts, badly fitting shorts, tank tops etc), the amount of tattoos they have - and also by the colour of their skin. Usually very pale white with patchy areas of sunburn. And by how much beer they drink. Or alcohol generally.

Actually that's not fair. That's only a certain type of Brit."

sounds like the William Hague type. All that's missing is a baseball cap on backwards.

I have more in common with an American than with someone from Japan - does not make for one culture - after all, we all watched Friends, saw Obama inaugurated, drank coca cola. Actually, the Japanese probably did these things too. There are commonalities across the globe. But not one culture.

Claig - if you pretend to be Scottish, people will be much more charitable abroad!

Well strand - how you can you tell we brits have a certain colour of skin.

I love a drink and tan much better than most people. Goes to show we brits come in all colours and sizes and that's what makes britain to me - difficulty in classifing us.

The English have been deliberately denied their own culture, to subsume them into Britain. That is why they are so unknowledgeable about their own culture. It is often not taught to them. This is different to the Scots, Welsh and Irish, where their cultures and history are taught.

The same in Italy, they are very proud of their culture and no one in Italy would even question whether they had a culture (apart from the fact that there is the separtist Lega Nord in the North which has a Germanic Lombard culture and feels a difference to the Roman and Greco culture of Naples, Sicily and Magna Graecia). The Irish celebrate St. Patrick's day worldwide, but up until recently St. George's Day was a complete non event.

The British had a world empire and the ruling elite had a world view, which is why local English nationalism was never as high on the agenda as in other countries.

GrandhighBooba, yes they love Scotland abroad. I was surprised, but in Italy and France they used to plan their holidays and they used to ask me about Scotland. I didn't know much about Scotland, and didn't think they would want to hear about Rab. C. Nesbitt, so I couldn't say much. They all went to Scotland for the beautiful green scenery and the Highlands. I must go too one day. I have been to beautiful Edinburgh, the Athens of the North.

Edinburgh is amazing, but yes, come and see the rest of the place. St Andrews is my particular favourite. [could never afford to live there emoticon]

I agree, English culture seems to be in an identity crisis at the moment. But that's my point - English culture, not British! There is a tendency to assume that British=English, which it does not. Britain is multicultural by definition.

(To those who didn't know the Beano was Scottish - The Dandy is too! And Shortbread is a bit "highlands," much prefer a Tunnocks teacake)

The Beano and the Dandy - absolutely fantastic. Now we can forgive you for Gordon Brown, Charles Kennedy and Menzies Campbell I like Alex Salmond, though.

Yes I think Britain is a bit of an artificial construct, naybe a bit like Yugoslavia. In order not to awaken English nationalism, which might destroy the Union, I think English identity and culture has been downplayed by the ruling elite.

Didn't realise St. Andrews was so nice. I do know they have a great university there. Will put it on my list of places to visit.

To see the difference between Scottish nationalism, which is not discouraged, and English nationalism, you only have to consider that there is the Scottish National Party, but can you imagine the uproar if there was ever an English National Party? It will never happen.

Its a beautiful old town with a historic centre, a castle and cathedral, the ancient golf course, stunning clean beaches, great shops, and indeed the university which makes it a really young town with a great buzz. But oh dear, houses are expensive. That whole area - the East Neuk of Fife is really lovely.

I agree, England needs to find it's identity - devolution has been unfairly given to everyone but the English.

Well strand - how you can you tell we brits have a certain colour of skin.

I love a drink and tan much better than most people. Goes to show we brits come in all colours and sizes and that's what makes britain to me - difficulty in classifing us.

Sigh. I know Brits all have different cooloured skin. There are lots of British Afro Caribbeans living here. And I have a lot more in common with them than other nationalities with the same coloured skin as me. It's not about skin colour but it is about shared experiences.

Personally I think one of the beauties of our culture is that we do embrace so many others. Ie our cuisine is so much more interesting than in Italy where I really struggled to find a restaurant selling anything that wasn't Italian (some would say that is because olde style British food isn't much cop so we have had to reinvent ourselves via the food of our immigrants. And I would say they would be right!).

The closest other country I can think of like this is the States where Tex Mex, Jewish, Italian American etc food is considered American.

Am I making any sense? Not really. Oh well I know what I mean!

And I agree with everyone else - it would be nice to be able to be proud to be English, celebrate a national day, have a national costume etc. Here where I live they are intensely proud of their heritage - this month it is Creole month and in a couple of weeks time all the school children will be wearing their national Creole dress to school. Can you imagine that in England?

"Personally I think one of the beauties of our culture is that we do embrace so many others"

I fully agree with you. And I think it's that word 'embrace' that is so crucial.... inclusive, tolerant, becoming part of the whole. When a group with a different culture - and that could be absolutely anything frankly - opt not to be 'embraced' and included but to stand apart and declare themselves 'other' then that's when problems begin.

However @strandeadatsea... I think it's also an integral part of English (as opposed to British) culture that we are not natural flag-wavers, costume wearers and so forth. (International football matches exempted) 'Reserved' is our middle name! :) Many of us are quite comfortable with our identity rather than in a crisis and don't need silly extrovert displays a la St Patrick's Day etc. to express national pride.

Chil1234 - actually you are quite right and that is one of the good things about the English culture.

Although doesn't explain the morris dancers...

Morrismen (and I was once given a long lecture on why they are the last word in macho and not girly bell-wearing leg-shakers) just don't care. :)

OP. I take it you are an adult? How can other people tell you what the culture of Great Britain is? If you don't already know it? Every country has its own unique culture and Britain has had one for hundreds of years! Unlike say America a new country, which still has its own culture, of course the Red Indians had their own culture before white people settled there. Or is this thread a wind-up?

British culture.

There is a culture of respect, politeness and altruism. It may seem unbelievable if you've never left Britain but I have never seen the gentleness of British politeness to strangers in any other country. It may even seem unimportant but it is enormously important to everyone's quality of life.

Culture of impressive support, state subsidy and interest in the arts. This is very striking. Coupled with the wonderful BBC and its reaching out to other countries.

Our amazing literary and historical heritage. Nuff said.

Culture of fierce tolerance.

The state culture of supporting the unfortunate and providing according to need. The NHS is the flag-bearer for this. Not that Britain is alone, but it's part of the European cohesion on welfare which makes me proud and relieved.

oh and the Beano and Just William, and Lord Snooty, and Edward Thomas, and Henry Fielding, and Kenneth Williams

the humour ..how could I leave that out?

By the way, the telly. The telly is bloody amazing. You fall on the BBC in a state of euphoria when you relocate home.

virginbolleux - well put.

Although now we have BBC online and iplayer, 4ondemand, dvd's of shows etc I don't miss telly quite as much.

I do however miss a lot of the other things you write about so eloquently (see me being polite and British there). Also miss fish n chips, butchers' shops, the swish of rain aginst the window of a double decker bus (etc).

(yup I am now officially homesick)