What is this "British" culture of which you speak?

[GrandhighBOOba]

Have been lurking on another thread in which the failure or otherwise of multiculturalism has been discussed, and it has got me thinking; what is this "British" culture that is being discussed, which some posters want immigrants to comply with?

I don't see that there is one culture in Britain - the differences in lifestyle, language, beliefs and attitudes from one area to the next are so large. For example, the difference between living in the south of England as compared to central Scotland, or the Scottish Isles, or the Welsh valleys. Or the difference between being working class or middle class, the difference between being urban or rural. Is this not multiculturalism?

What makes one culture more important than another?

@HabbiBOOOO... had to laugh about the Catholic bit. My mother was catholic-educated and when I came home from school once with some homework about Queen (burn the protestants at the stake) Mary I, her amazed reaction was 'Good Queen Mary burnt protestants?!' So yes, there are different takes on the history lessons. As a Lancashire girl we had local history woven (literally) in with national history... Spinning Jennies and Spinning Mules, eh-up-lad. (And Robert Burns doesn't get much of a look-in in an English school, no)

Shakespeare and the Beatles cross national boundaries. But if you say 'The Two Ronnies' to an American they look at you as puzzled as if you were to say 'Shoeless Joe Jackson' to one of us. That's what I mean about commonality.

It's hard to define it. But it is a shared background and shared customs and shared understanding. When we are in Paris, we'll go to the British pub and laugh at shared experiences such as Gordon Brown's rictus grin, of which the French are mercifully unaware. We share the same hinterland, we laugh at the same at the same things, because we have all been through the same things. When we are in Rome, we'll go to the Irish bars, because we'll find people who share our frame of reference and our culture.

@GrandhighBOOba.... you may not have learned specifically about Henry VIII and I may not have learned much about William Wallace. (I take the point about different currriculums) But, nevertheless, we both know more about those respective leaders today, as adults, than we might know about, say, a High Duke of Poland or Japanese Emperor of the same era.

Why did I feel like a fish out of water in England? It's a combination of many things - everyone - including those I had never met before wanted to kiss me on both cheeks! The pubs shut just about the time you go out for a drink up here, and the prices! The idea that you could order a "scotch" at the bar as opposed to specifying the brand and age of your whisky. The fact that everyone seemed preoccupied with the choice of schools they would send their kids to, and would be so anxious about it. That further education seemed to be primarily about being qualified, rather than about learning something. That my accent stood out so much and that many words I used were not understood. Town centres were full of shops I had never heard of before. The sheer volume of people and cars - and I live in a city up here, yet it shocked me.

All very strange. Not bad (except the pubs closing bit) just very different.

"humour and biscuits do not a united culture make"

I would say that you don't know what defines your own culture until you are a few thousand miles away from home, you meet a fellow countryman and you chat about the stuff you miss and the stuff you hate about the place you both find yourself in.

Hob-Nobs and Morecambe and Wise may not be exactly it but it's also unlikely to be Shakespeare or Robert Burns either. My most common experience in that scenario is that 'a decent cup of tea' is top of the list.

"we possibly both read the Daily Mail." - are you KIDDING?

@GrandhighBOOba... You can find 'difference' anywhere. It's schools today but it was house-prices dominating the conversation five or six years ago. Volume of people and cars is as dense in a Scottish ity as it is in an English city. But at least it was just a few words & your accent people didn't understand... not your entire language. At least the unfamiliar shops had signage in readable English rather than the Cyrillic Alphabet. At least the currency was familiar etc. If you were to step off a plane in Tokyo you'd really feel an outsider.

Gordon Brown is still reasonably popular up here! And we don't laugh at the rictus grin - we recognise it as a Scottish trait - Andy Murray anyone?

Chil - we know about English kings primarily because we were enemies - If we had fought Japan with the same intensity, we would know their leaders better! But I take your point - being geographically close, there is more knowledge about each other, but this does not IMO make a shared culture.

As for the Two Ronnies - Does Scotch and Rye mean anything in England, I don't know. What about Chewing the Fat? (I would like to hope you do know about it, because it's great)

I agree with giveitago - Britain is by definition multicultural.

I think the view that the UK is too disparate to have a common culture and national identity is nonsense. Consider how different the Alpine region of Italy is to Sicily or how different French Flanders is to Provence. This doesn't prevent France or Italy having very strong senses of common identity. What do you think of when you think of France? I think of Gallic shrugs and pouts, patisseries, queueing for baguettes, tables outside cafes and fetes. It would be interesting to ask people who have settled here from other countries what they used to think of as British before they moved here.

You don't know what you've got until it's gone. You don't know who you are until you see it reflected in the eyes of others. When you are abroad, you start to miss home, all the things you thought were crap, now take on a new glow. When you meet a fellow citizen, you communicate without any barriers because you share the same experiences, you can see where they're coming from, because they come from the same place.

When you came to England, you realised how Scottish you were. When you go to France, you'll realise how British you are, and when you meet an English person in France, you'll think they're one of your own, you'll think they come from Lewis, and you won't be far wrong.

"we possibly both read the Daily Mail." - are you KIDDING?

so not all the good things of England have penetrated that far North yet? But at least we both share the knowledge of what the famous print newspaper is.

Well, you were on stronger intellectual ground with the Beano...

There's a longish joke about the the darts teams from two local pubs having a fight.... until a gang from a neighbouring town turn up. So they forget their differences and fight together as a town... until a bunch from a neighbouring county show up. So they forget their differences and fight together as a county.... until people from a neighbouring country turn up. So they forget their differences and fight against the oncomers as a country.... etc. You get the picture?

The UK has had to be that 'gang' on a lot of occasions in the past. Forgetting differences and tackling a common enemy. This is another important place for reference points.

actually, despite having no Scottish blood, when I came to Scotland, it felt like coming home, and I realised how un-English I am in many ways.

claig, I do think that you're projecting an awful lot of your own cultural norms and assuming they are universal british-isms. Which is interesting in itself, and, i suspect, typical of what many people would do in consiering this question.

by Beano do you mean one of Gordon Brown's international conferences or the much more nationally important british institution of Dennis the Menace and Gnasher?

But that's the point Claig - I don't feel like that when I meet an English person, because we don't come from the same place. There's nothing wrong with where they come from, but it is different!

The density of cars thing - I assure you it is a noticable difference unless you are in the centre of Glasgow or Edinburgh. There are just less people up here.

Just because Japanese culture is more different does not make Britain a unified culture.

Ariesgirl - what you are thinking of when you think of France is a stereotype - and I assure you, the Scottish stereotype is vastly different to the English one

pedant alert - The Beano is Scottish!

well yes I am English and see things from a mainly English perspective. But I think that I share more in common with Scottish people than I do with Belgian people, for example.

"I would say that you don't know what defines your own culture until you are a few thousand miles away from home, you meet a fellow countryman and you chat about the stuff you miss and the stuff you hate about the place you both find yourself in."

But other european countries don't feel that way when they are overseas - they recognise that they feel when they are at home.

Claig - I'm assuming you've lived in the countries you mentioned as if not I cannot imagine going many miles away outide my country's borders and heading for the nearest english expat place. This is what my dh does (and he's not english and he's certainly not multicultural!).

GrandHighBooba, have you ever lived outside the British Isles? If you have then I would be surprised if you didn't feel a greater commonality with Welsh, English and Irish people.

Is teh Beano Scottish? Fantastic, that makes up for Gordon Brown

Queuing is the answer ladies - the Brits do it; that is our 'national trait'. I have noticed that no-one else queues like we do, the old Belgian bats at the fish stall in the market on a Friday don't seem to have heard of the word!

Yes I have lived in those countries, so I know what feelings arise. In London, the French will congregate in French bars to watch the Rugby or the football when their national team plays. That is natural, because they want to share with people who feel the same patriotism for their country.

scaryteacher, you are right, everybody abroad knows the British queue and are polite and say "I'm very sorry to bother you, but would you please mind awfully if ..."
They laugh at our customs, because they are different.

I am an expat at the moment, living in a country where many of my friends are NOT from the UK. Yes I get on with them, yes we often have lots in common. BUT as soon as I meet a fellow Brit we instantly fall into a comfortable conversation because we have shared references that others don't have. Be it cbeebies or the state of our economy, you can easily talk to each other without having to explain yourself all the time.

Of course there is a common culture. Whether you were brought up in Scotland or Cornwall, we all watched either Swap Shop or Tiswas on a Saturday morning; everyone shops at Boots, Next and Tescos; we all stayed up late to watch the election results (ok, many of us did!); you hum those first few bars of Grange Hill or EastEnders and everyone knows what you are on about.

And there is a commonality to our humour too. Sarcasm, irony - we all have it, at least more than others in this world.

For me personally the other nationalities I feel I "get" better than others are the Scandanavians and Dutch. More so than Australians.