Britain's totally unfair tax system

[ivanhoe]

Hi everybody, what im about to write maybe will surprise some of you, but nonetheless its all fact. So here goes.

Britain is a low income tax nation, hence increases in Council Tax.

Including Council tax, Britain has the most disproportionate tax system, compared to Western Europe.

The poor in Britain pay more "overall" taxation including Council tax and Income tax, in proportion to income, than the rich.

What do you think of that then ?

fell - i've been wondering about that. surely its against the free movement of people and is therefore against the regulations? i wonder if it could be challenged in court?

Really good point Fellatio.

Ivanhoe you seem to be all for raising income tax, why don't you stop for a moment and consider that the very people who pay HR tax already contribute the most and demand the least financially.

Let's move towards the American model where income tax has several steps with the highest rate being 35% after $330,000.

Fiscally America walks all over Europe and it's bureaucratic wastage. I would prefer to take a leaf out of their book rather than stay affiliated to the unsustainable European model.

"EU citizens pay higher income tax, with no local tax like ours. End of story"

Where on earth did you get this idea?

I live in France. We pay :

• Income tax
• A yearly "habitation" tax based on the size of your flat/house which goes towards paying for rubbish collection etc.in your local area
• Plus a yearly "houseowners" tax, where we pay because we own our flat. This money also partly goes towards the equivalent of local councils.

Comparable to the UK council tax, you have to pay tax for your house or flat in Germany, the so called ?Grundsteuer?. Property or estate tax is charged in Germany to cover local services and is rated usually below the current market value and would be around 1% of the rateable value. Non-residents are subject to wealth tax on property owned in Germany of around 0.5%.
When you own your home, you will pay the tax to the municipalities. Many municipalities connect the collection of the real estate tax with the collection from the property owners to paying use fees for garbage disposal, road cleaning and drainage. When you rent you home, your landlord is allowed to pass this tax on to you in the so called ?Nebenkosten? the accessory charges added on to the net rent.

'What a load of intellectual bunkum.

EU citizens pay higher income tax, with no local tax like ours. End of story.

Kinnock and co. have nothing to do with my posting.

The differences between the EU and the UK are vast.

While we Brit's live in the dark ages with primative little Englader ideas, Europe moves forward democratically with social democracy'

Not intellectual bunkum - solid legislation Ivanhoe.You may like to refer to the relevant Local Government and Finance Acts for the relevant information.

The EU consists of member states with different member states charging local taxes in their own way. There is no one size fits all way of doing it. Porto lives 15 minutes from me. Her binbags for her gemeente are 10 euros more expensive than mine. Thus, there is a difference in how local taxes are charged.

Kinnock and Co have a lot to do with this. If we weren't paying such a high contribution to the EU coffers for the likes of Kinnock and Mandelson, then we would have more money for our economy and income tax could drop, as well as CTAX.

I don't quite know where you get the idea that the EU represents social democracy, or that it is even democratic in any way shape or form. Churchill pointed out that we would be better to position ourselves with the US rather than Europe. Can't say I disagree.

I live in Belgium and yes, there are differences between Belgium and the UK. The UK is far, far cheaper for most things. I do not buy clothes, shoes, books, electrical/electronic equipment here as it is so expensive. I hit Sainsburys and fill up the back of the car when we are home, because food costs much less in the UK.

You may like to compare things in the UK like stamp duty which is far less than you pay here in Belgium for the purchase of a house.

I really don't think you have a scooby what you are talking about.

Agree with ScaryTeacher. Not only to I hand over more than half my salary on tax/NI, everything else is more expensive here - car insurance, car tax, utility bills, clothes etc. And bin bags! If you buy a car you have to pay mise en service charge. To buy a house you have to also hand over an average of 17% of the purchase price in taxes and fees. Needless to say, the property market is very different here as people only move if they have to.

I am agog at the threads on here where people give tips on how to manage on £30/50 per week for food. My budget for 3 of us is 120 euros - I could cut back a bit, but 30 euros would buy you bugger all here. It would even buy a roll of those bin bags. You would struggle to buy a decent takeaway for 2 people on that amount also.

In addition, under the French speaking education system I have a huge list of stuff to buy each year for dd's school books. There are constant demands for cash for this and that throughout the year. Conversely under the Dutch speaking education system, everything is provided - even school trips. The most you are expected to pay is 25 euros per child per year. So my next door neighbour pays next to nothing whilst it costs me 100s. We live in the same commune, our children go to school in the same (different) commune. I think this is a tad unfair.

What is cheaper? - childcare/activities, and alcohol and cigarettes.

The price for EU Students is £400, but actual Tuition is offered free of charge.

However all students must pay this package price which covers accommodation, administration and excursions.

This special rate is offered based on block booking of accommodation in University residences and preferential rates for excursions.

Re-the rest of your posting, this is down to the English Tory lead coalition Government not wanting to waste tax payers money.

Whers EU students are valued as not being a waste of tax payers money, anbd as stated, EU workers are taxed at high rates than British workers.

///////Kinnock and Co have a lot to do with this. If we weren't paying such a high contribution to the EU coffers for the likes of Kinnock and Mandelson, then we would have more money for our economy and income tax could drop, as well as CTAX.//////

This is a myth, it's like saying that if welfare was cut, pensioners would get more.

Factually it doesnt matter how much money remains in Britain, the Tory right wing dont believe in the role of the state. wheras Europe do.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////ivanhoe stop doing this it's bloody annoying and has no meaning on this forum////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Yes - either cut and paste your quotes or just used good old fashioned quotation marks please - we do all know what they mean!

fellatio - i don't i'm afraid - please say? my degree was obviously a total waste of time!

I do hope you are joking. You are joking - aren't you?

ivanhoe. Usually on mn there is a whole raft of anti Tory feeling, yet your thread doesn't appear to have any support or agreement!

I can only put it down to your Ill informed statements and your ///////////////////////Aggressive manner///////////////

I don't believe in the role of the state either; why do we need a large, over bureaucratic and creaky edifice that costs a fortune to prop up and doesn't function efficiently?

As Porto says, car tax in Belgium is a case in point. In the UK, we would pay normal car tax for our two twelve year old cars. In Belgium, it costs over 2k for the pair of them, plus a supplement for each as they run on LPG. When you bring a car into the UK, you need road tax, MOT and insurance. In Belgium you need all those, plus a certificate of conformity and you pay a mise en circulation. It cost us 6k to import two cars into Belgium, both of which had already been here for two years on transit plates anyway. You can't get fully comp insurance on cars over 5 years old.

You have no idea at all Ivanhoe.

My point about the undemocratic EU (and are you happy to be paying another £200 per family for their champagne bill, and yes, they do put on large champagne receptions) is that it costs a fortune and delivers squat. If we weren't paying the EU this according to the DT:

'The UK's net transfer to EU institutions is set to rise from £6.4 billion this year to £8.3 billion in 2011-12. By 2015, it will be around £10.3 billion.'

then the deficit would be easy to reduce cuts would not have to be made.

/////You have no idea at all Ivanhoe///

Oh but I have, -

//////'The UK's net transfer to EU institutions is set to rise from £6.4 billion this year to £8.3 billion in 2011-12. By 2015, it will be around £10.3 billion.'

then the deficit would be easy to reduce cuts would not have to be made.//////

I agree fully with you, but your mistake is in your thinking.

You see, the Tory right like to hurt the poor, and reducing the deficit gives them the chance to do just that.

You clearly have no idea of political dogmas.

"I don't believe in the role of the state either"

To "not" believe in the role of the state undermines tax payers money going to fund our vital services at both local and national level.

"In Belgium you pay communual and regional taxes as part of your income tax. It varies from Region to region but is about 6% of the total tax payable. The max rate here though is 50% which starts at 34,000 euros. So by my calculation, on that salary you would pay about 1000 euros per year. And of course, each working person in the house would pay"

One of the vast differencers between the UK and Britain is that the amount of GNP used in the EU is far greater than in Britain.

Can you stop saying "Europe" as though it's one country please? It's not.

"Usually on mn there is a whole raft of anti Tory feeling, yet your thread doesn't appear to have any support or agreement! "

Im not only anti Tory, im also anti- British people who cannot grasp the fact that British workers are vastly under taxed compared to EU workers and also many among the British dont seem to be aware that the EU State plays a huge role re- investment and subsidy across Europe, and that Britain lags behind here, and has done since the 80s.

"I don't quite know where you get the idea that the EU represents social democracy"

Because the EU has the Social Charter, and it has Proportional Representation.

We Brits have none of this.

I can assure you Ivanhoe that my family are most definitely overtaxed. We write obscene cheques to HMRC in January and July.

I can assure you that my family are very definitely net contributors and any attempt to wangle more money out of us will be met with a one way ticket to Hong Kong or Singapore. So that will be another family who won't be contributing to your little dream.

Every action has a reaction.........

"We write obscene cheques to HMRC in January and July. "

Then you must be earning extreme amounts of money.

I'm not even sure what your point is now, Ivanhoe....how do YOU think things should be done?

Riven, yes public services are MUCH better here in MY experience. Medical care and schools are of a high standard. I have never looked at it from YOUR angle though - to know for example about provision for special needs. I know that we have to pay a an extra 25 euros each year to the Flemish region to pay for "home services" which, as I understand it, pays for assistance to disabled and elderly people at home. A lot of people DH works with were up in arms about this and refusing to pay!

It doesn't feel like it Ivanhoe. I don't think you are differentiating between a hr tax payer and Roman Abromavich!