Britain's totally unfair tax system

[ivanhoe]

Hi everybody, what im about to write maybe will surprise some of you, but nonetheless its all fact. So here goes.

Britain is a low income tax nation, hence increases in Council Tax.

Including Council tax, Britain has the most disproportionate tax system, compared to Western Europe.

The poor in Britain pay more "overall" taxation including Council tax and Income tax, in proportion to income, than the rich.

What do you think of that then ?

///////longfingernails Tue 12-Oct-10 13:22:40
Council tax is stupid./////

Council tax increases have replaced national income tax increases to fund local services.

Council tax is not stupid, what it is doing by stealth is devolving local communities nationwide from the role of the State.

Neither were rates based on ability to pay!

Ivanhoe, you sound a bit posessed!

ivanhoe i think that devolving local communities from the role of the state is a good thing. if people want to pay more locally for more services or the converse whats wrong with that.

Porto

"In Belgium you pay communual and regional taxes as part of your income tax. .... The max rate here though is 50% which starts at 34,000 euros.

Wow - that's a marginal rate of 50% on income over about £31k pa.

Is it right that the basic tax rate of 25% starts on your first earned Euro, and quickly ramps up to 45% on income over about £17k.

I'm guessing you get gold plated public services for that!

//////i would also feel sorry for youngsters living in tiny flats subsidising old people living in mansions.///////

I would ask, just how many old people live in mansions to justify that almost paranoid remark ?

But basically government's like to devide the young from the old, and visa versa, its the way they get votes.

Jack, the tax free allowance is set about 6k if IRC. Then it ramps up pretty sharply. I was not a higher rate tax payer in the UK and nearly had a fit when we moved! Public services are quite impressive though and lots of things are tax deductible - child care and cleaning being the most notable.

I get an "attestation" from the school for after school care and one from dd's weekend dance class. These costs can all be set against tax.

Am I the only one to be mildly intimidated by the ////// ?

Is it like internet green ink?

What about using "quotation marks" instead of shower curtain slashes?

Concerned
UK

Oh then there is National Insurance and employers pay your medical insurance......and where I live, a roll of 20 bin bags costs 40 euros - it certainly encourages recycling and composting. I think the tax situation in the UK is relatively mild in comparison!

But on the other hand, you don't wait at all for medical treatment and are free to shop around, all schools offer cheap wrap round care as standard. Holiday clubs are plentiful. Public transport is cheap and frequent. Playgrounds are generally fantastic. I would NOT move back to the UK. At least not whilst dd is still little.

Thanks Porto - the £6k tax free makes more sense.

I'm a bit surprised that you need private health cover.

Are the schools really good? With small class sizes and plenty of excellent teachers?

Alouiseg for Chancellor of the Exchequer - she talks perfect sense.

//////Neither were rates based on ability to pay!//////

People buying their houses knew what the rastes were before they brought, that's the point im making, they had that choice.

//////Alouiseg Tue 12-Oct-10 15:43:09
Ivanhoe, you sound a bit posessed!/////

Why do you say that ?

They know the council tax band though don't they?

////////ivanhoe i think that devolving local communities from the role of the state is a good thing. if people want to pay more locally for more services or the converse whats wrong with that.///////

If you think that way, then how do you justify the income tax paid to central government ???????

//////PortoFangO Tue 12-Oct-10 19:36:29
Jack, the tax free allowance is set about 6k if IRC. Then it ramps up pretty sharply. I was not a higher rate tax payer in the UK and nearly had a fit when we moved! Public services are quite impressive though and lots of things are tax deductible - child care and cleaning being the most notable.

I get an "attestation" from the school for after school care and one from dd's weekend dance class. These costs can all be set against tax.///////

What country do you live ?

////Porto

"In Belgium you pay communual and regional taxes as part of your income tax. .... The max rate here though is 50% which starts at 34,000 euros.

Wow - that's a marginal rate of 50% on income over about £31k pa.

Is it right that the basic tax rate of 25% starts on your first earned Euro, and quickly ramps up to 45% on income over about £17k.

I'm guessing you get gold plated public services for that!//////

We British have been conned. Low income tax, underfunded services. End of.

////////PortoFangO Tue 12-Oct-10 19:46:03
Oh then there is National Insurance and employers pay your medical insurance......and where I live, a roll of 20 bin bags costs 40 euros - it certainly encourages recycling and composting. I think the tax situation in the UK is relatively mild in comparison!

But on the other hand, you don't wait at all for medical treatment and are free to shop around, all schools offer cheap wrap round care as standard. Holiday clubs are plentiful. Public transport is cheap and frequent. Playgrounds are generally fantastic. I would NOT move back to the UK. At least not whilst dd is still little./////

The reason for better funded public services in Europe are higher rfates of direct taxation, and much greater use of Europe's Gross National Product as invesment and subsidy into the EU's vital public services.

///////Are the schools really good? With small class sizes and plenty of excellent teachers?//////

Higher taxation across the EU, means smaller class sizes and better educated children, its that simple.

ivanhoe i cannot justify the income tax i have paid to central gov, thats why i voted conservative. /////// why these lines please? should we all start doing it or do you have something wrong with your keyboard?

Um. I am not an expert by any means. Dd is in first primary and in a class of 26. She is 6.5. I have to say that our employers pay our "hospitalisation insurance" and care is apparently fantastic. I pay my extortionate taxes and reap the benefits. But I have no clue on what the situation is here if you are long time unemployed or disabled.

'but when people brought their houses under the old rating system, they knew what the rates were, they didnt expect to poor to bail them out, which is what has been happening since the poll tax, and now the council tax.'

What crap - they knew the Rateable Value, just as they know their CTAX banding. What they didn't know was what the rate poundage was going to be each year, just as we don't know until the SSA is given from Central Govt what the CTAX will be each year.

Had there been a general domestic uprating as there should have been (there had not been one since 1973), you would have been paying far more in rates than in Community Charge. If you consider that there was far more pre 1973 housing stock in 1990 when CC was introduced than post 1973 housing stock, then we were all woefully undercharged.

The poor don't bail anyone out for CTAX and neither did they for CC. There was, and is a system of CC benefit and CTAX benefit that allows a certain amount of income (and capital) on a sliding scale to provide relief. You can have all your CTAX offset by CTB, so please, get your facts right. It is those who pay in full who subsidise this. Those that default effectively force the CTAX up each year as the Councils have to charge more to make provision for bad debts.

Porto - my binbags are 30 euros for 20 big ones, best you move!

'EU's vital public services' ? Surely an oxymoron. I was not aware that the EU actually provided any vital public services at all to the UK, but merely burdened us with demands for more money. If there wasn't the EU, then VAT wouldn't be so high as a proportion of that is paid to the EU.

'Higher taxation across the EU, means smaller class sizes and better educated children, its that simple' Been to Albania lately then?

There may be higher taxes across EU member states, but I would point out that EU fonctionnaires and other employees pay a 'special' rate of income tax (not a lot), have various other privileges, and that we pay via the EU a lot of money to the Kinnocks and Mandelson (£8k per month to the latter to tide him over until he finds a new job for up to 10 years) for the privilege of them having been EU comissioners and MEPs.

What a load of intellectual bunkum.

EU citizens pay higher income tax, with no local tax like ours. End of story.

Kinnock and co. have nothing to do with my posting.

The differences between the EU and the UK are vast.

While we Brit's live in the dark ages with primative little Englader ideas, Europe moves forward democratically with social democracy.

As you seem to know so much about the EU I wonder if you could explain to me why it is that students from all the EU countries can study at Scottish universities for free, in common with Scottish students, with the exception of the English and the Welsh who have to pay to go to a Scottish university?

ivanhoe, I already said that we pay local taxes. It comes from wages at source, rather than a separate bill - but it is still a local tax.