Are you sick of apologising for your faith?

[SongBiird]

At first I was thinking only as a Muslim but when discussing it with my friend who's Catholic she said she felt the same.

Instead of discussing the benefits of our chosen religions, our chosen paths in life (or right now, when discussing it with those who are not of the same faith or any faith we end up getting into debates about some of the things either a) people don't understand and thus take the wrong (often negative) way, b)other fanatics/fundamentalists/crazed nutters have done in "the name" of our faith c)how as a female we are oppressed in our faith.

There are countless other things that I feel I end up apologising for, or trying to justify; and I say justify because often, explaining isn't good enough!

Does anybody else find themselves in the same position?

Why is it a bad thing to "end up in debates" with people who don't share your belief system though? Isn't your faith robust enough to withstand challenge and discussion?

atheists are caricatured by believers too, usually as sad bitter stunted cynics whose spiritual life consists of a hole where religion ought to be

and non-believers have a lot to be angry about. Having our children routinely indoctrinated at state-funded primary schools, for a start.

If you love your faith and blieve that you have a handle on the truth, you should stop whinging and engage in debate, not attempt to stifle it with passive aggressive complaints. What would Jesus have done?

Oh I like a discussion personally. Just saying how lovely our lives are as Christians/Muslims/Great Spaghetti Monster worshippers would be, well, dull.

I find debates about the existence of God fairly pointless, because it's just an endless cycle of "there's no empirical evidence"; "no there isn't - and there wouldn't be"; "well, that's rather convenient"; never the twain shall meet on that one I think.

But the other stuff, well, I rather like it.

Passive aggressive? Isn't that what your post is full of?

I wasn't whinging actually and debate is fine and often enjoyful, however, when somebody attacks you with no intention of discussing anything or even allowing a "you to yours, me to mine" finale there is nothing fruitful about it. When people insult you calling you delusional, stupid many other unnecessary and often nasty names just because of what you believe in, it isn't pleasant.

And actually I said faith but did mean beliefs or lack of also. I don't like to enter conversations where athiest's are attacked either.

"and non-believers have a lot to be angry about. Having our children routinely indoctrinated at state-funded primary schools, for a start."

Right, so what does that have to do with me? I don't decide the curriculum. Also, it isn't just non-believers who get upset over the curriculum, what about people of other faiths, non-Christians?

I hate it but then I am quite a private person and get fed up with incessant questioning about any aspect of my life tbh

Nope, my post is mildly aggressive but in no way passive

True, atheists are not the only ones who get pissed off by Christian brainwashing in schools. I personally think all faiths should be equally represented in an analytical programme of comparative religion and discussion - atheism included.

It's a non-argument that you don't control the curriculum so shouldn't be challenged. You belong to a faith which is also a massive political and financial chimera - you can't expect the views of other, non-believing people not to be coloured by the role of Christianity in our society and our schools.

I haven't called you stupid or delusional though. I don't think that's necessary

Don't you let UnquietDad see you referring to atheism as a faith Greensleeves...

I'm Catholic and think schools should be secular BTW. I was quite surprised at the religion in my DC's village primary, when I had made the decision not to send them to a faith school. I work in secindary, and it is quite different.

Don't you let UnquietDad see you referring to atheism as a faith Greensleeves...

I'm Catholic and think schools should be secular BTW. I was quite surprised at the religion in my DC's village primary, when I had made the decision not to send them to a faith school. I work in secindary, and it is quite different.

And I really mean that...

that was just poor English!

Lol Greensleeves, and good point I agree there should be equality amongst religions during RE. I also think they should educate children with regards to Humanism and Athiesm (you can't disagree with it if you don't understand it ). But I'm not a Christian I'm a Muslim.

I am also surprised with regards to the religion taught in non-faith schools. We did consider sending ds to a Catholic school but thought it would be better balance wise if he went to a state school. I assumed he would get a more thorough knowledge of worldwide religions.

That's exactly what I was getting at Riven, although not exactly as concise lol.

It drives me crazy to be honest. If someone is a good person then what does someones faith matter. The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same. I am on the other side of the fence to you riven but seems have a lot in common. I am the only non- muslim in my community. My DH follows Islam and so do almost everyone i know living in a muslim country. But I am not Muslim although I believe in God (or Allah) my beliefs do not fall into any faith. People are always getting into a debate with me about it

We are who we are and should accept others for who they are

In the Religion Higher Still programme students have to study one belief system without a Godhead. ie Humanism or Atheism. Lots of RC schools (Don't know about non RC as I have never taught in any)now teach it in 3rd and 4th year as an introduction.

Songbird I so get where you are coming from. I now refuse to justify my faith. I am fed up with people asking why I believe in an old man in the sky

its faith. dont justify it.

ladysybil You are so right

Yes, I agree it is tiring and frustrating. I'm torn, TBH. On the one hand, yes - debate. My faith is worth nothing if it cannot stand up to debate. But - debate is fruitless when you are effectively speaking a different language from the person you are debating with. What frustrates me about the faith / non-faith debate is what feels like the wilful misunderstanding of what faith is, by those who do not have one. Like lillybloom, I get tired of the 'old man in the sky' assumptions, or the assumption that my faith is nothing more than a security blanket to which I desperately cling in denial of all evidence, that I am required to leave my brain at the door when I enter church, that I have a 'voice in my head' telling me what to do, that my faith is based on the fear of what will happpen to me when I die, that I read the Bible as if it was an instruction manual, that without it I simply wouldn't know right from wrong.

I began reading 'The God Delusion' a while back, but gave up because I simply didn't recognise the kind of faith that was being discussed. Debate is healthy, but only fruitful if you are actually debating the same topic. In debates with atheists, I simply don't feel like we are talking about the same topic.

But atheists may equally feel that about talking to people of faith As I said, it seems to be an issue of talking two entirely different languages. I'm not sure what the answer is to that one - but I think this is why it feels so tiring and pointless.

That's exactly what I was getting at Riven, although not exactly as concise lol.

Don't know wht happened there just came bck to it. Anyway tis so true ladysybil and yes MrsCadwallader, if you believe in God and follow a religion, obviously you are brainless or braindead. However, I have also listened to conversation/debate where athiests are classed the same way, especially if they are in the minority in a particular group.

I hate the, "if you don't follow my religion/path you have no common sense" conversations. It's so . Firstly, if you are trying to convert persuade somebody that yours is the right path surely there must be a realisation somewhere that this is obviously always going to provoke a strong negative reaction.

Lilybloom what exactly is the Religion Higher Still programme? I haven't heard of it before.

I can't say I care for being patronized because of my lack of faith, either. It goes both ways!

You try posting a thread on Mumsnet about how you don't want your child to pray at their non Church state primary school!

I think it is nice for children to have some concept for religion. It is based on right and wrongs and children need to be taught that.. but never scared by it.
As i said i am not any faith but if my children are taught it lightly then thats fine by me. I like to think they will be level headed and make their own minds up when they are old enough..

Although my in-laws try to scare me into Islam by saying they love me and want me to go to heaven!!! As if i won't go to heaven.. come on.. God loves me

As a secondary RE teacher I would just like to point out that we do teach non-religious povs, athesim and humanism. Pupils at my school don't pray and study religion, philosophy and world views as an academic subject.

I teach in a bog standard comp too!

I get fed up of being attacked, but not of real discussion and debate.

See? That's what always happens. If you say you don't want your children to be taught to pray at schoo, someone always thinks what you mean is that you don't want your children to be taught about religion.

I think it' really important that my children learn about christianity - it's been a major part of the heritage of this country - and about other religions too.

I just don;t want them practicing Christianity - or any other religion - at school.

No I was pointing out that in no school i have worked at have children prayed, either voluntarily or otherwise.

Sorry, roslily - I was directing my ire at MickyLee.

I do think it's different in secondary school, but primary schools seem to have a lot of religion around!