Hands up who believes in creationism/doesn't believe in evolution?

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

I know a lot of Christians who believe in evolution, so I kind of had this rather naive idea that people who didn't believe in it were very few and far between. But I just discovered someone I've known a long time, and respect a great deal, doesn't believe in evolution.

So who else doesn't? How common is it?

Oh and being offended is no substitute for having the facts on your side.

The New Scientist has had some interesting articles recently about evolution and the mechanisms behind, for example, speciation.

I saw evolution described recently as a law of nature, because it certainly occurs in all sorts of situations. But various mechanisms have been suggested to play various roles in the evolution of life on earth. Evolutionists don't always agree any more than other scientists (although I think they would probably be united in opposition of creationism!), so talking about scientific fact sits oddly with me.

I don't understand what is meant by "God created evolution".

The New Scientist has had some interesting articles recently about evolution and the mechanisms behind, for example, speciation.

I saw evolution described recently as a law of nature, because it certainly occurs in all sorts of situations. But various mechanisms have been suggested to play various roles in the evolution of life on earth. Evolutionists don't always agree any more than other scientists (although I think they would probably be united in opposition of creationism!), so talking about scientific fact sits oddly with me.

I don't understand what is meant by "God created evolution".

And I really mean that

"Evolutionists" should read "evolutionary biologists". I'll get my coat....

So if the Bible is correct why isn't it a universal truth? Why do Aboriginals believe in the rainbow serpent?

How can anyone believe that God amde everything? If he is omniscient and omnipresent why so many mistakes? Why build a man that needs to keep his testicles cool to procreate? Why make child birth so painful? Surely God could have seen over population coming a mile off?

h childbirht painful cos of original sin
read genesis 3
and suffering is there cos of laods of reasons - to make us followHim, wake us up to our bad ness etc

Slimcea, leaving aside for a moment the point about him existing or not. What would you think of someone who made women suffer in their billions (and often die) because someone else had eaten an apple.

Wouldn't you want them locked up for life in a cell or institution?

If god existed and you proved it to me. I'd want nothing to do with him. The god depicted by Christianity is a vile sick psychopath.

Slimcea - still don't really feel much motivation to want to be faithful to someone who treats me like shit! Rather bizarre thinking, IMHO.

ooojimaflip - yes I abslutley agree that complexity can emerge from very simple rules. I did some academic research in complex systems and evolutionary economics later in life and it was my earlier experience in biochemical science with evolutionary theory that really pushed me in that direction.

It is clear that very simple elegant rules can lead to extreme complexity in - its the simplicty and elegance of the rules that drive the universe that I find mind blowing though, not the complexity itself.

Slimcea

There is real reason why the human female suffers so much giving birth.

We have a proportionally large brain capacity.

We also walk upright.

Walking upright dictates that the pelvis is the shape and width that it is.

Unfortunately, it is barely big enough to allow the passage of a healthy human infant.

If it were wider so that labour became easier (like say that of a Cow - they have far fewer problems) women would have difficulty walking upright.

oh god i do know that
dont patronise me
was just telling you why xtians say its so

AMumInScotland- I am part of a Vineyard Church and can say that you will probably find a mix of beliefs regarding this topic as it is not something that is put in stone that we all have to subscribe to. It doesn't really have much of a bearing on our day to day faith.

I think that when people talk about God inventing evolution, it means that he set it in place, as with other mathematical and scientific "laws" and rules in much the same way as a computer programme.

We all choose to believe things even if they are fact. My dh chooses to believe that I love him even though I can not show him the love, he can still see the evidence for it.

You can show love.

No - you can demonstrate love. You can demonstrate it, and experience it, in very many different ways, all of them subjective and personal to us. We can put our faith in someone's love for us, based on those subjective experiences, but there is nothing tangible that exists independently of ourselves that we, or anyone, can point to, or hold up, and say 'Look - here is 'love' '.

For me, because I do believe that God created the universe, everything in the universe has God as the original cause, so the laws of physics and the laws of evolution, and everything else by which the universe works, is there because it goes back to how God created the universe in the first place. But that doesn't mean that God consciously and deliberately made every single thing, just the rules by which the universe came into being and which led to the way things are now.

I think evolution is a sound explanation for the origins of life and continuation of such.

And I believe God created the universe.

I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

I agree with Lewisfan that the genesis account doesn't preclude evolution, in fact if you look into the etymology of the word 'day' in the creation accounts you will find that the meaning is more closely related to 'period of unspecified time'. Millions of years, possibly.

However, I do feel that hard line creationists who won't tell their children about dinosaurs etc are deluded and dangerous. God gave us brains, and reason. Why deny what is obvious and has been studied intensively by scientists for a very long time. seems odd to me.

y'know, just to inject a note of nihilism here...

I think it is very hard for people to accept that we are essentially here by accident (albeit a wonderful, convoluted accident), that life is meaningless in actual fact, other than what we make of it while we are alive

(though I actually find it impossible to believe in a god when you see all the suffering in the world, and the dreadful lives that some people have through the sheer bad luck of being born in the wrong place and/or the wrong time)

it is easier, I guess, and more comforting to believe in a god that created us and an afterlife to go to after our short lives. In fact I believed it myself for a while but then the belief just sort of faded away

I find it much easier to believe we're here by accident than that we are here through the actions of a creator. Who also deliberately created all sorts of viruses, parasites and unstable landmasses.

Why would human beings have a conscience if life were meaningless?

Because there are survival advantages to it.
Animals have been shown to have 'morality' in their own terms.

Anyway, who says life is meaningless? Now its happened and produced sentient lifeforms, it has as much meaning as we can pack into it.

I find the idea that we are an accident awe-inspiring. "God did it" is just boring lol.

It's kind of amusing (but sad) to see Christianity backtracking on the creation thing. First it was "yes it was all done in 6 days and if you disagree you are evil/stupid"

Now as the evidence piles up for evolution (not to mention all the other sciences that make nonsense of these superstitions) Christians say "well of course evolution was created by god"

It must be like standing on a small island as the water rises. Gradually less and less to stand on until the day comes you have to give it up and join the grown-ups.

Don't be silly Onagar - when the island's gone they can always walk on water.