How to advise newly-Christian friend who thinks that only Christians can go to heaven

[poguemahone]

A friend has recently become a Christian, and is very happy and excited about the whole thing.

She's having a bit of a tough time, however as she's getting into conflicts with people who don't share her beliefs. In particular she holds that only Christians will go to heaven. She's traveling in a non-Christian country so I can only imagine upset for everyone concerned.

We knew each other years ago when she was a lovely sweet girl but a bit wild, and she recently sought me out, probably because I've always been a Christian. She's keen to pick my brains on things like this, and I'm feeling a bit of pressure to get the advice right.

I've told her that:

• I believe people of all religion and none can go to heaven if they're good people.
• Although Christianity makes utter sense to me intellectually and emotionally, not everyone has been exposed to the same (cultural) background as me.
• God's fair if nothing else, so for example to discount millions of people who've never heard of Jesus, would just be unfair. (Likewise for people who've not seen great examples of Christians, who're happy with their own religion etc)

But she's asking for more info and I'm really no expert on this. Any advice?

I think you missed the point there Arcadie. It wasn't about admiration

Bunny was saying (I think) that decent non-Christians do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because it will please some big Daddy in the sky. Which is a much healthier and more balanced approach to life.

So, if I understand you, Arcadie, you've come up with examples of prophecies Jesus fulfilled. When they are exposed to proper intellectual analysis and found to be wanting, you play the "Oh, it's only because you haven't found Jesus yet that you don't accept my examples" card and leave the thread.

Ah, well, you see that's where faith comes in [beatific smile]

[vomit]

Ah, Greenie, and to think I had decided not to like you after our argument on another thread... you rock!

that happens to me a lot Annie

I am Marmite Woman

I do think it's interesting that christians take so many different and opposing positions on something as central as heaven. It seems a bit unfair that someone could convert to christianity and work really hard at it only to be told it doesn't count.

And of course a shame that all the muslims and hindu's etc will be kept out (Depending on interpretation). No multiculturalism there then

Marmite? Yuk! Sorry, don't like you again!

Seeing as we have some real evangelicals on here, can someone please answer me this question - must warn you I asked my newly born-again best friend this 17 years ago and she told me I was demon-spawn a couple of days later, and could never speak to me again! (She never did, either - guess that's an "I don't know", then...?)

Q - What happens to people like the undiscovered Amazon tribes who never hear the gospels and therefore have no chance to accept Jesus as their personal saviour? If they are condemned to some sort of hell does that mean that God created them obviously knowing that this would happen but not giving a toss...?

Apologies in advance if this question really is offensive but I'm not being facetious, I genuinely want to know!

I can understand how people can embrace christianity as a faith - the general tennets seem to be fairly appealing.

I cannot understand how many of you seem able to embrace the literal word of the Bible. It was written hundreds of years after the event by people with their own agenda. They tied themselves in knots over questions like was Jesus devine and if so, how can that be reconciled with a monotheist religion. What is the nature of the sacrifice of Christ - in what manner does it provide for the expiation of sin? How does the doctrine of transubstatiation actually work. Logically (to me) very little of it hangs together and the literal content is fimly based in the cultural norms of 2000 years ago.

How far do you go with the literal interpretation of the Bible. Does it extend into the things which the old testament regards as morally acceptable? If not, why not?

littlemysmum I'll tell you my story by way of an answer, as I became a Christian on a desert island in Fiji!
I grew up going to a dull-as-dishwater church. I thought you had to be good to go to heaven, tried hard (and failed) to be 'good' and was as sanctemonious (sp?!) as they come. One night, while on my own, God spoke to me and said 'you hurt me' and I had a picture of Jesus on the cross. In that split-second I suddently understood grace, that Jesus had to die because someone had to be punished for the fact that I don't live the way God would like me to. How amazing that God doesn't want us to die though, so his perfect son took the punishment, and came back to life as proof that he's conquered death. All we have to do is believe in it. I can honestly say that I've never been the same since, in a good way!

Our church pastor became a Christian in a dream, he had no church background, but woke up one morning a Christian and hungry to get to know Jesus better.

I'm going to leave you all for a bit too...the kids have seen too much mr tumble today already so I'm going to go and play with them instead!

Anyone who tells me I'm going to hell (literally) can, frankly, go to hell (metaphorically).

As I think it's all imaginary anyway, the thought doesn't bother me, although the patronising attitude does.

My this thread has moved on.

traceface, I thought I was addressing the OP as it goes into the friend traveling in a non-Christian country and the conflicts that are arising from her views. As a non-Christian I thought that I could join in.

Sigh, I suppose it's a club that doesn't want any detractors/other points of view.

MysMum - This is what I was trying to say last night, there are plenty of people - tribes is a good example, babies another, people who live in other cultures who never get to know about God/Jesus. They are happy as the are and know no different. Hell is being without God so therefore hell to them is the way they live - absolutely fine for them, they are as happy as they are.

Hope that explains it

I have no idea why Christians bang on about hell and the afterlife so much if Hell is living without a christian God then some people manage fine, it's not like the millions of other religions who may or may not live in different cultures are ever going to know any different. People live the way they live and I think people should hav plenty of respect for others religions.

lou - not sure why you're asking me not to address you since we were the only ones discussing this point last night - if you're bored don't respond but I will answer the questions you put to me (your words are in quotation marks)

"I don't understand how you can be a Christian and not believe in the afterlife" - because it is open to interpretation and noone knows. I have no direct experience of an afterlife, I have an experience of a living faith. To me Christians are concerned with an afterlife mostly because they can't bear to live in the present and/or afraid of death.

"I don't understand how you can be a Christian and not believe that living eternal life without God is not a bad thing". - It's not a bad thing to those tribes we're talking about - should a Christian really be so arrogant to describe that others aren't happy. It's a bad thing only to you and I because we live with God. Those who don't are happy in their own way - my foster daughter is a good example.

"I don't understand how you can be a Christian and think that every body will be saved regardless of their decisions" - No, I don't think that, I think Jesus died for everyone but to quote Paul - "men are without excuse" and that the world around and grace and caring for others shows LOVE which is God. So, if you live in Love and happen to live in a place where you can't access Jesus YOU ARE STILL ACCESSING HIM.

UD - you're already in 'hell' - bet you think it's FINE and I do too

I have lots of friends who live without God it their lives, that is all that is meant as hell. Idiotic Christians who try and turn it into a whole other place are foolish.

Horseshit. I love my dh and my children more than life itself and that is coming from ME and my experiences, my cumulatively accreted character and the chemical reactions taking place in my brain. I am not channeling some 2000 year old dead Jewish rabble-rouser

Sorry Green, that's not explained very well to you. You are not channelling anyone but you are living in Love - Love and God are interchangeable words to me. Not distinct, not different.

Oh, OK. Well, Elephant and Biscuits are interchangeable words to me? Can I help it if the woman in the teashop get confused?

LOL

Some Christians seem to think that God is a distinct entity and argue about it even though it says clearly in the Bible and in all the scripts that God is love.

Not some guy in the sky to beat us all up and make us feel bad.

Please note that me saying that is only bantering semantics to the quotation, was not trying to discuss the nature of God.

just common sense really innit - what does your firend want - the word of god - something int he bible perhaps - something ritten BY MAN confirming your assertion that god is fair and good.

this is GOD we are taking about - is he fair and good or are you worshipping a discriminatory racist bastard?

i prefer to think that GOD loves everyone.

and the notion that only one religeon will go to heaven is small minded, bogoted racist bullshit.

Laurie - while your idea that we non-Christians are already in hell is novel (and I would agree with you on days that my DDs are acting up!)... what about the whole "...and shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:42)" business?

I got that quote from this hysterical website

I had a discussion with an American theologian once in which I expressed my misgivings about the notion of a loving and merciful God who damned people in perpetuity and a morality in which somebody had to undergo a painful toruous death in order to "pay" for the misdoings of total strangers who had not yet been born

She said to me "Well, when we say God is the Father, people make the mistake of thinking we mean God the cuddly old grandfather - fathers spank"

That neatly encapsulates the whole creepy infantilising Christian dynamic to me

Which version of hell am I in? There are so many to choose from...

Oh please all look at my hell and damnation website. It's soooooooooo funny! I have tears streaming down my face!

Custy - I made exactly those points about racism a few pages ago.

no one ever accused me of original thought!