How to advise newly-Christian friend who thinks that only Christians can go to heaven

[poguemahone]

A friend has recently become a Christian, and is very happy and excited about the whole thing.

She's having a bit of a tough time, however as she's getting into conflicts with people who don't share her beliefs. In particular she holds that only Christians will go to heaven. She's traveling in a non-Christian country so I can only imagine upset for everyone concerned.

We knew each other years ago when she was a lovely sweet girl but a bit wild, and she recently sought me out, probably because I've always been a Christian. She's keen to pick my brains on things like this, and I'm feeling a bit of pressure to get the advice right.

I've told her that:

• I believe people of all religion and none can go to heaven if they're good people.
• Although Christianity makes utter sense to me intellectually and emotionally, not everyone has been exposed to the same (cultural) background as me.
• God's fair if nothing else, so for example to discount millions of people who've never heard of Jesus, would just be unfair. (Likewise for people who've not seen great examples of Christians, who're happy with their own religion etc)

But she's asking for more info and I'm really no expert on this. Any advice?

I'm not condemning anyone and think that lou who is, is wrong.

This thread really reminds me of this SouthPark episode

In this episode, the South Park children build a church to live in sinlessness, and do not go to school, avoid home as much as possible, and listen earnestly to Cartman, who acts like a televangelist preacher.

In the meantime, The Hell Director welcomes a group of new arrivals to Hell. Some of them are confused, saying they had been devout Protestants, or Jehovah's Witnesses, and shouldn't be in Hell. The Director tells them "I'm sorry; I'm afraid you were wrong... You chose the wrong religion." They ask, "Well, what was the correct religion?" The Director informs them: "I'm afraid it was the Mormons'. Yes, the Mormons' was the correct answer."

There's a Rowan Atkinson sketch that's very similar except it's the Jews who turn out to be right.

It will be the atheists who turn out to be right. Because we will have lived our lives without fear or the worry that we might not get the best seat (or a seat at all)

In some ways being religious is like camping outside Debenhams in the rain to get into the sale, but for 70 years!

And then finding they didn't have what you wanted anyway.

Oh quite right onagar. That's exactly what it's like.

onagar!

But it's kind of annoying that when you're all being eaten by worms you can't go "See!?"

This is always what amazes me about most religions - they're so blardy selfish! It's all about do this or do that random thing to get yourself a lovely reward. Nice. And yet religious people have the nerve to paint themselves as having some kind of moral high ground! How can believing obscure dogma or restricting your diet or just whatever for a reward be more moral than an atheist who tries to be good for its own sake?

"annoying that when you're all being eaten by worms you can't go "See!?""

That's my only regret

TheFallenmadonna, which camp are you in. Is it the 'everyone goes to heaven', 'only christians go to heaven', 'only my branch of christian', 'all good people' or some combination?

Again, yes, that's exactly what religion is all about and not a ridiculously over-simplified put-down at all...

Well it's what this thread is about if you read it. I mean the 'who goes to heaven' bit.

I'm in the 'I won't presume to judge' camp.

Ironically for a MNetter...

Oooh, ooh, can I got to hell please? I quite fancy being taken from behind by a big guy called Bubba!

Laurie, for a Christian, you're OK!

Funny, what you folks are saying though about Christians being so very happy and fulfilled and not being able to live without god. Cos when I was a Christian, I was utterly miserable and wretched. All the other Chrisitians were swooning about, speaking in tongues, dancing with joy, seeing visions of god etc etc. They seemed to be having a marvellous time and I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. I longed for god's touch more than anything. I prayed, I screamed, I begged for him to reveal himself to me. What did I get? Nothing. I have never been as unhappy as I was during that time.

One day I realised it was all bunkum. I have never known such peace and joy as I did when I had the revelation that they were all deluded nutters. Finally, I was looking to myself for fulfillment, happiness and moral direction. And I've been a very happy and contented person ever since.

"This is always what amazes me about most religions - they're so blardy selfish! It's all about do this or do that random thing to get yourself a lovely reward."

Muffle - see, that's why I like Judaism. It's all about this life, with absolutely no empahsis placed on the hereafter or getting reward at the end of it all. This life is the only one you can be sure of, so do the best you can with it!

Yes, well, I not that kind of Christian Annie. I'm pretty happy really, spiritually. Not even a smidge of that Catholic guilt I hear so much about, and I did the whole Catholic school, Catholic church thing. May not remain a practising Catholic much longer, but will practise another Christian denomination. Suspect I shall always feel the twitch upon the thread though.

"I'm not condemning anyone and think that lou who is, is wrong."

I haven't condemned any one. I am simply saying that the Bible clearly states the conditions of Salvation.

I really don't understand the problem. I understand that there will be many who don't believe that the Christian Faith is the Truth. Overmydeadbody, onager, even AnnieLobeseder, although it is very sad to hear that someone could have had faith and felt forced to abandon it because they were so miserable. It makes perfect sense to me - they simply don't believe that Jesus exists, or that if he did, he was the Son of God. Or even that God Himself is existent, or that there is an afterlife, whatever.

What doesn't make sense to me, is that people who claim to be Christians, go on to deny key aspects of the faith. There are only 4 key aspects to the Christian Faith:

1. I am a sinner 2)Jesus died for me 3)I need to turn to Christ & ask His forgiveness 4)If I do, I spend eternity with God.

I don't understand how you can be a Christian and not believe in the afterlife.

I don't understand how you can be a Christian and not believe that living eternal life without God is not a bad thing.

I don't understand how you can be a Christian and think that every body will be saved regardless of their decisions.

If you want to believe that there is a God who will have mercy and compassion on all creation, regardless of their decisions and that we as humans need do nothing, that is your perogative, also. But please don't call that Christianity, which is by definition dependent on Christ and his sacrifice.

I am not condemning those who don't know Christ. I am not presuming to say who is or isn't going to be saved. God is a God of mercy, and I believe that many come to Christ on their death bed, when the reality of eternity is most upon them. But, uncomfortable as it is, the Bible is very clear that not all come to Christ, and that those who don't spend eternity apart from God:

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36.

This really is my last post on this thread. I wish you all well. But, particularly Laurie, I would rather you didn't address any posts directly at or to me, because I then feel forced to respond, and I have said that this is my last post.

There's something very very pessimistic about Judaism, though. I think it was the Chief Rabbi being interviewed by John Humphries (Humphries was asking religious leaders to try to convert him). The Rabbi said that without religion there could be no moral guidance, because human beings couldn't figure out what is right or wrong without a Holy Book (and the threat of Hell for not following the rules).

That attitude came across as so absurd. Really put me OFF Judaism.

lljkk - well, you get nutters in every religion! . Sorry a Jewish one put you off....

Annie "Christians are quite happy to smugly accept that's the fate of most of the world's population." I don't know a Christian who is happy to accept that. I know many Christians (my self included) whose hearts are breaking at the thought of people who we love (and those we don't even know) not going to Heaven. If you truly believe the Bible then it is this painful reality which spurs us on to tell others about Jesus. How can I just accept that my sister is destined to a life in hell. I am certainly not 'happily smug' about it. I am devastated. Yet in the end it is her decision as to whether she accepts Christ or not. It is God's work to do. My part is to pray and to share what I know. I can't 'convert' anyone.
And as for 'living for today' and not being bothered about the afterlife - I'd say for me it is the other way round. We were created for an eternal purpose. Our days in this life are so short compared to eternity. While I'm alive on the earth I try to live as Jesus would want me to, to show compassion, to be kind and gentle, patient, understanding, to be a friend to anyone who needs one, to share what I have, to be an example in my speech and behaviour - and I know I fail at all of these - but I want to do these things NOT for the sake of doing good - simply because I owe my life to Jesus. The apostle Paul said "to live is Christ and to die is gain". While we're here lets make the most of it, but the next life is what it's all about. That's why Christians (in the true sense) have such a focus on sharing about Jesus - because it's what it's all about. If my 'religion' was about being good in this life I do't think I'd see the need to tell anyone else. It is because it is all about the next life that we long for everyone to know Jesus. If it were so easy to be happily smug then no-one would ever tell anyone. It's not easy to believe the Bible.

jw and OMDB - sorry if you're feeling ignored. I'm wondering why, given your stance on the whole faith thing, you joined in on this thread in the first place. If people aren't responding to you perhaps it because we're trying to respond the the OP's original question and not get side-tracked. But now that you're here I hope you're giving some thought to the other views - in particular lou's 4 key aspects of christianity!
Bunny - as for the culture/ geographical thing - God is bigger than that. I know many Christians who used to be Muslim or Hindu and who God revealed himself to.

So you're saying that all those millions of people who worship gods other than your Christ are wrong? And you and your ilk are the chosen correct ones? That's exactly the smug, entitled arrogant, sanctimonious and judgemental attitude I've come to expect from christians.

You know what? Stop wasting your time worrying about your sister and all us other poor unenlightened souls. We don't want your pity. We don't want your prayers. Nobody died for me.

And surely it's infinitely better to live as a good person because you want to than because you have to to get in to your "heaven"??

"I know many Christians who used to be Muslim or Hindu and who God revealed himself to"

Was that before they heard about it from missionaries?

In case that wasn't clear I mean was it directly or did it depend on hearing about christ from christians?

I haven't read the whole thread, but surely Scripture agrees with your friend? That's one of the many reasons I'm not a Christian!

"I know many Christians who used to be Muslim or Hindu and who God revealed himself to"

Conversely, many Christians also turn away from Christianity and embrace another religion. Like I said, I'm now Jewish!

I'm new to this thread and and have only read the first and last pages, but I think bunny has missed what's been said - you don't have to be good to get into heaven. Christians accept that you can't get into heaven by being good, you get in by God's grace, and you try to be "good" because you know that's how God wants you to live in this life.

There's a famous story about the author CS Lewis (Narnia man) involved in a theology debate at cambridge; some professors were talking about the difference between religions and couldn't see what made Christianity different. CS Lewis said something like 'easy, its grace'. i.e. other religions have an emphasis on working your way to heaven or gaining God's approval, whereas Christians realise that they can never be 'good enough' so, as Lou succinctly said, they admit they're sinners and ask Jesus to take over.

Onagar - many 'found' Christ without hearing about it from Christians!
Bunny the point I and others have been making is that you don't HAVE to be good to get in to heaven. It's about accepting that it's through the Grace of God. And Jesus died for you and loves you unconditionally. I'm sorry your experience of christians has been so negative.