Why shouldn't superstition be ridiculed?

[Lucia39]

In answer to the OP regarding the 'chattering classes' who 'sneer at Christianity' I would answer thusly.

If people living in the 21st century and who depend upon the advances made in science and technology to benefit their lives still desire to cling on to infantile beliefs that a big daddy in the sky is really running the show and one day he is going to make it all better for them, then they deserve everything they get.

Why can't these people put away such childish things and just grow up?

Is superstision the same as faith btw?

But for some people their way of being religious is to improve the lot of mankind. My faith drives everything I do.

Even that varies though GrannYG, my own faith demands that I put as much effort as possible into social welfare and the like, and very little if any into organised stuff. I am nto a fan of the orhganised stuff: isee its erves a purpose for many people but not necessarily for much else.

Living in the 21st century makes no difference to faith.

Christianity is the same yesterday, today, forever.

It's just as relevent today as it ever was - and, frankly, looking at the state of society at the moment, even more so. The mission field is extremely ripe.

To jeminthecity "So what would you consider an alternative adult religious faith? Lucia?"

I wouldn't.

Biologically we are here to pass on our genes to the next generation - there is nothing more to it at that level.

Yes we have this amazing brain that allows us to consider all manner of abstract concepts and create art, music, literature, but as far as the reason for my existence is concerned I don't regard myself to be any different from a dandelion or a blackbird. I've done my bit re: the genes and when I die that's it. My molecules go back and get recycled.

I haven't read the thread and I won't because my bp can't take it!

but can I just say the OP is not representative of the atheists/humanists I know, in terms of lack of tolerance.

Please don't tar us all with this brush.

Lucia- fair enough, just wondering

Thing is, whatever I believe, or don't believe, I would never slate people who have belief, and THAT is what I think is intrinsically wrong with this thread.

Lucia39, I understand your feelings perfectly, though screaming "Why can't they all grow up" probably won't help. Even if it feels good for 5 minutes There are plenty of threads to post in including one tearing that article to shreads.

jeminthecity, "is superstition the same as faith"
I'd have to say yes. A belief in tarot cards and ghosts is just as valid as a belief in the bible and holy spirit.

MadamDeathstare, I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'm simply asking. Do you believe those without religion have no morals or judgement?

About the 'Straw Man' thing. This comes up a lot with christians saying that the kind of christian Dawkins and others describe doesn't exist. You know, those who believe the bible is literally true and that god created the world. Heaven and hell being real places. All those things.

But we have people who believe just that on MN so how can it be silly of atheists to refer to them? Yes some christians have abandoned these things, but plenty have not.

Here we go again! Get rid of religion and you get rid of morals - why? This presupposes that without the threat of divine retribution people cannot behave decently!

As to superstition and faith. Let's examine the terms. [Concise OED 11th Ed.]

Faith - from Latin via old French.
Complete trust and confidence, strong religious belief based on conviction rather than proof.

Superstition - from Latin via old French.
Excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural; widely held irrational belief in supernatural influences.

Supposing a person tells you that they have an invisible friend who tells them how to live their life. This friend also gives them a set of rules for how they should treat people and what sort of behaviour they should adopt. They also tell you that this friend has promised to look after them whatever happens.

How would you define that person?
Are they demonstrating religious belief based on conviction or are they demonstrating an irrational belief in supernatural influences?

Incidentally, it should also be borne in mind that morals simply mean the customs of a society or culture [i.e. that which is considered socially right or acceptable]. So a Papuan New Guinea tribesman who ritually eats his defeated enemy is simply practising the morality of his society and culture!

"Get rid of religion and you get rid of morals - why? This presupposes that without the threat of divine retribution people cannot behave decently!"

I so agree with that statement. It does wind me up when those of a religious bent imply I have no morals because of my lack of belief in a god. By contrast, I think my morals are more thought out and considered than those you get 'off the shelf'. For example, I believe in treating all people equally, regardless of their gender or sexuality, not something anyone who follows the teachings of the 3 big sky god religions could honestly hold their hand up to. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is such a cop out.

I have not read all posts on here.

I do believe that it's all a matter of faith. Most of us need something to believe in and if you don't OP then fine, but I think your post/thread is a horrible and unnecessary one.

I don't madamdeathstare was doing the 'no religion = no morals' she was just going on from your comment about 'passing on your genes' being your only responsibility.

I concur with you that there isn't a lot of difference between faith and superstition often. But I'd still think you'd be rude for ridiculing someone's lucky pants (well, it depends on what was on the pants, to be fair) if that was what gave them confidence to get through a job interview etc.

But again, apart from making the ridiculing atheist feel good about themselves, what does ridicule acheive?

And no, I think superstition is very different to believing in God. I believe in God and I'm very superstitious.

MadamDeathstare, thank you. I saw your comment could be taken two ways and just wanted to clear that up.

The whole morals thing is quite tricky. I'd like to live in a world where everyone spent time thinking about the best way to behave and why. Sadly many don't and just drift along.

I can honestly see why a religious person would consider a set structure with written out rules would help there, but I'm not convinced that it does.

Atheists were also made in the image of God so they do possess the same basic qualities as people of faith.

And Jesus died for them

Are you a scientist OP?

I'm atheist, but I can't bear atheists such as the one in the OP. The smug, patronising attitude makes my teeth stand on edge.

And if people think they have total understanding of the world because they're too clever to believe in god, or indeed if they think science explain everything they're pretty dim in my world.

Respect never cost anyone anything.

MadameDeathstare: "Then you have no responsibility to make the world a better place for everyone to live in?

Your only duty is to pass on your genes?"

I clearly stated that was our biological imperative. The experts continue to debate where altruism comes from. Is it derived from kinship? Has it a mutual benefit basis? I suggest you read The Selfish Gene wherein Dawkins explains the various different theories on this issue.

Scienceteacher:
And Jesus died for them"

No he didn't. The crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth was ordered by the Roman Governor of Judaea, because he believed him to be guilty of Sedition. This followed his organised Messianic entrance into Jerusalem and his attack on the Sadducean establishment of the Temple - which was pro-Roman. His activities appear to have coincided with what, in all probability, was a Zealot led [Jewish Nationalist] insurrection against the Romans.

In other words he was threatening Roman hegemony in the region.

John 3:16, Lucia. It's a simple message for life. You are trying to complicate things too much. It doesn't pay if it is making you so angry.