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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

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Original poster

What would you do if your dc didn't want to go to church?

61 replies

beansmum · 29/11/2008 21:18

ds is 4. I left a church I wasn't happy with a few months ago and haven't really found anywhere else. There are a couple of churches that I like but they have hardly any children, so the few that are there just sit in the service. ds has said he doesn't want to go to church tomorrow, and tbh I don't really get anything out of it when he is bored and whiny and fidgeting around the whole time.

Is there any solution? Do I just keep dragging him along, or leave him with someone if I can, or stay at home with him? It's only a short term problem, we're moving soon, but I'd like to be able to go to church over Christmas.

OP posts:

isit · 29/11/2008 21:28

Imo at that age they should go where they're told! So if you want to go, he has to go, but do appreciate what you say about you not getting anything from it. Could he take a small toy and play at the back? At our church we set up a rug with building bricks or similar for the few children who attend.

MaryBS · 29/11/2008 21:41

Perhaps you could take some colouring things? There are some nice sheets you can print off the internet of bible stories, so you can feel he is participating that way.

4 is a little young for him to decide for himself, but if you're moving soon, maybe just seek out a more family friendly church, even if its in a denomination you wouldn't normally consider.

Many churches do more for children at Christmas - are there any Christingle services near you?

Reallytired · 29/11/2008 22:03

If you state the nearest large town to where you live and what sort of church you like, maybe some mumsnetters will come up with some suggestions. Ie. What is your current denomination are you high church or evangelical? Do you mind women priests, etc.

When you move it might be worth getting advice from people who run a local christian book shop. They will know all the churches in the area and tell you what they are like.

I think you need to find a church that your son stands a reasonable chance of liking. There will come a time when there is no way that you can make him go to church. He needs a church where his needs are catered for as well as yours.

My son likes church because the sunday school caters for his spirtual needs. He worthships God in an age appriopate fashion. I am sure that chances of him attending church when he is older are higher than children who have to sit through long services bored out of their skulls.

If you are moving soon then I would worry more about finding a church near your new address. It won't kill him not to go to church for a couple of weeks.

bosch · 29/11/2008 22:11

I have 7 year old and 5 year old who don't really want to do church, and a dh who fully agrees with them when they say it's boring. I'm trying hard to find a church that suits them but in the meantime, I'd try to reach a deal with your ds about which services you both go to - tomorrow a good one because it's the first day of advent.

If I'd planned better, I've have got ds's to do an advent calendar of their wishes (have already bought the chocolate advent calendars ). Still a possibility for tomorrow after church though - might be a bit of bribe for your ds if you can interest him first thing? You can include eating fruit and going to the park, he can include eating treats and going to a play centre...

Then maybe alternate on/off if it's not a church that's ever going to engage him?

UnquietDad · 30/11/2008 17:47

When I was a child, I thought as a child, and verily I did think church was boring. Now I am a man, I have put away childish things, except the ones i quite like, and I see through a glass darkly, and realise I was right all along.

Original poster

beansmum · 30/11/2008 18:31

We didn't go today, it was cold, we were tired/lazy and ds says he will definitely go next week. There is one local church we haven't tried, and I think a couple of kids from ds's nursery go there, so we'll try that. If he still doesn't want to go I don't really want to force him, I think 4 is quite old enough to know when you are not enjoying something and he'll not be getting anything out of it if he's bored. I could send him with a friend to the church we used to go to, or do you think that would be weird?

OP posts:

ilovetochat · 30/11/2008 18:36

our church has a website that tells you what sessions are children's sessions specifically and other sessions have sunday school for different ages.
dd is 16 months and comes with us, obviously too young to protest yet, but if she gets fidgety i take her out of the service to run around a bit.

hullygully · 30/11/2008 18:39

Out of the mouths of babes. Little children don't, unfortunately, want to suffer in the name of adult superstitions.

solidgoldbrass · 01/12/2008 17:01

If your DH doesn't want to go either, then why not just leave DS at home with his dad?

It's no more fair to make a child sit through the boredom of a church service than it is to expect them to sit quietly through a political meeting or worthy but incomprehensible piece of modern drama just because that's how you want to spend your time.

ohnoherewego · 01/12/2008 17:09

Hullygully, the OP asked for advice regarding her child. There was no need to respond with a complete lack of respect for her beliefs.

hullygully · 01/12/2008 18:00

Oh yes there was.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 01/12/2008 18:10

Don't they do creches and Sunday Schools any more?

BuckwheatPillow · 01/12/2008 18:15

I am not sure many children want to go - like school (except my DS but only because another boy brings in Big Grey Car ). At that age he is probably ready for Sunday School- do any churchs near you run one?

CoteDAzur · 01/12/2008 18:27

I'm really curious as to what the "spiritual needs" of a 4 year old are.

ReallyTired - Could you explain please?

I'm asking, because DD (3.3) has not to date shown any such need. In fact, I'm fairly sure that she has never even heard the word 'God' yet.

Do these "spiritual needs" manifest themselves closer to the 4 yr mark?

rosbif · 01/12/2008 18:30

My DT's are 6 now and they actually enjoy coming to Church with me despite there being a lack of activities specifically geared to them. They think of it as their special time with Mummy and the priest is very kind and explains lots to them. Could you ask your priest to spend some time with DS to try and get him interested?

mabanana · 01/12/2008 18:35

I absolutely hate the word 'spiritual'. Reminds me of those dim celebs who say 'oooh, I'm so spiritual'.

Reallytired · 01/12/2008 21:46

I take my son to church because I am a christian. I want my son to have the opportunity to learn about my faith. Whether he decides to believe in God when he is older is ultimately up to him.

I see my son as being more than a robot. I believe he has a soul. He is more than just a set of chemical reactions. Athetists are allowed to disagree with me. Obviously if you are an athetist then its understandable if you want to bring your child up an athetist.

Prehaps by spirtual needs I mean a human being deciding what they want to believe in and being happy with that. It is allowing that person to make sense of parts of the world that science has not yet managed to explain. Being an athetist is as much a religious position as being a born again Christian.

Its OK to be an athetist and I think its sad that schools do not have more respect for those who don't believe in God.

Life can be funny though. My FIL is a militant athetists did his dammest to make sure his children were athetists. Ie. he pulled them out of assemblies and they were never allowed to go to church. Both of them have rebelled and become active christians!

UnquietDad · 01/12/2008 22:27

Being an atheist (please note spelling) and considering your children to be more than "robots" are, funnily enough, not mutually exclusive qualities.

Some of the most "robotic" behaviour I have seen exhibited has been in happy-clappy churches (raising arms and smiling inanely)...

Colditz · 01/12/2008 22:32

My son is more than a robot. He is a child. He is his whole self without the intervention of non human entities.

Beansmum, If your son doesn't want to go to church and you have the option of not taking him, don't take him. He doesn't need to go, I promise you. If you want him to go, well, he's 4. He has to do what you want him to do.

Colditz · 01/12/2008 22:33

And atheism isn't a religious position, it is a religious non position.

UnquietDad · 01/12/2008 22:35

I missed that from reallytired first time round. "Being an atheist is as much a religious position as being a born again Christian." What utter cobblers. You set the goalposts, then claim that anyone who doesn't want to play your game is just playing for the opposition.

Original poster

beansmum · 02/12/2008 09:40

gosh.

I should probably have said that I have nobody to leave ds with, except when I have my parents staying which isn't very often. So the problem isn't really that I want ds to go to church, I'm not really bothered if he chooses not to. It's just that I want to go and I don't want to be fussing over ds the whole time. I can't work out how to manage it. I'm not sure it's possible actually, unless we go back to the church we left, which ds loved, but that's not really an option.

OP posts:

Lauriefairycake · 02/12/2008 09:51

If you've no one to leave him with then it's just as if you were dragging him shopping/to a doctors waiting room or to any other activity that doesn't centre solely round him.

Maybe you could get ideas to entertain him from a more general audience on the chat board?

As you say it's only for a short while til you move to a family friendly church.

We have a foster daughter who was forced in a previous placement to go to church and it put her off massively. She came to us and whined to go and watch my husband preach with my sil (whom she adores) - I don't go to church on Sundays so she has the option of staying with me. She now complains endlessly if she doesn't get to go as they do lots of fun things. We are very happy that she still doesn't believe in God and that she is still getting something out of going.

AMumInScotland · 02/12/2008 10:20

If going to church is something important to you, and leaving him with someone else isn't usually an option, then it's a question of either finding a church which has things for him to do (creche/childrens groups) so that you can enjoy the service while he does something age-appropriate and supervised, or taking something with you that will keep him quietly occupied when he's not interested in the service - colouring book, small toys etc - my DS used to run a couple of small cars around at that age when he got bored of the service, or make stacks of kneelers. I've found at most churches the people really aren't bothered by a child doing his own thing, so long as they're not whining or shouting.

You can also look out for services which are aimed at families - carol services and Christingles for instance - where there'll be lots of children, some of whom don't see a church from one Christmas to the next, so the service will probably be shorter and won't have a long sermon to sit through.

CoteDAzur · 02/12/2008 12:11

"Prehaps by spirtual needs I mean a human being deciding what they want to believe in and being happy with that."

Sorry but that doesn't make sense. I'm a human being who has decided long ago that she believes in nothing she can't prove and explain, and I'm very happy with that. No way you can possibly define that decision as "spiritual needs". Lack of spiritual needs, really.

Some adults do seem to have spiritual needs - as they go through hardships, learn about the world, marvel at its delicate balance etc they turn to religion. That I understand. What I don't understand is how and why you think a 4 year old has "spiritual needs". My DD (3.3) seems to have a need for her family, friends, lots of play, and only a little sleep. Oh and chocolate. I don't see her questioning the origins of life and wondering at the miracle of life. She doesn't seem to have any spiritual needs whatsoever.

I'm just curious to hear why you thought your son had spiritual needs.

You said:
"My son likes church because the sunday school caters for his spirtual needs. He worthships God in an age appriopate fashion."

He is 4. He worships God because you teach him he should. I don't mean to offend you, and I do understand why you would want your son to be a Christian, but how exactly has he decided what he wants to believe in? He is 4. Presumably you started to take him to church when he was 2? Or 3? Was he really questioning what he saw/heard or was he just believing everything you or priest told him?

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