What do creationists make of the Cern experiment today?

[beansprout]

It's getting a huge amount of coverage here in the UK. Is it getting much coverage in the US? What do people with a different viewpoint make of it?

Anybody want to join my "The Enlightenment Rock" campaign?

"The Enlightenment Rocks" I mean. I am not campaigning for rational minerals!

I am an Arts Grad (who was it on MN who used to revile us art grads at every opportunity?), and was hopeless at maths and physics at school - but am now fascinated and wish I had time to immerse myself in studying it all.

Thank Dawkins for Donk!
I was beginning to get quite depressed a while back. Also sad that nobody laughed at my 'deserts/desserts' thing [tragic emoticon]
It's so bloody amazing. A lovely scientist was on the radio yesterday explaining how they had a zillion pixel giant digital camera which was going to have to take a zillion to the power of Einstein photos a giga-nano- second (approximately ), and every single one had to be looked at my a computer and analysed and the data processed, and I just laughed out loud at how HUGE and crazy it all is.

Seeker, where can we find your manifesto?

And will there be cake?

Oh - I DID actually laugh at your desserts line, m - just didn't get round to saying so - sorry!

Oh yes, my mums spiritualist church adore me, I am a massive skeptic, and always will be, but they like to be challenged.

I must say I have seen some impressive things, but I still don't believe.

Same here blu. I failed Maths o'level and only got a C in Biology. Because I'd convinced myself it was dull - whereas in fact it was me that was dull! I find it amazing now that I ever thought that. My dad has a scientific bent and worked in the nuclear industry all his life. He watched bot DB and I turning our back on science and maths and silently despaired. DS#1 is fascinated now and I can see dad's eyes light up as he starts to explain things to him and answer his endless questions.

But the arts have much to do with science, philosphy, quality literature, it's all interlinked, and all worthy.

OK - so here is a thought for all science fans.
Empirical fact of wonder.

You/we/everything on Earth is/are made from star dust.

I always love telling year 10 that.

wasn't there a song about that Donk?

OOoh! Was there? Anyone know what it was?

(I collect songs for science lessons - we do On Ilkley Moor Baht 'at when I teach food chains)

TDWP - re the arts - oh, yes, indeed.

(I do have a grade A 'A' levelin biology, so not a total science numpty)

Dwonk - the Planetarium in NY has a fantastic show othe beginning of the universe and how it relates to atoms in each of us - it was the most inspiring millenium project I came across.

joni mitchell

Ahem - not 'Dwonk', obv!

am not sure how much this will help your science lessons donk but here goes

I came upon a child of god
He was walking along the road
And I asked him, where are you going
And this he told me
Im going on down to yasgurs farm
Im going to join in a rock n roll band
Im going to camp out on the land
Im going to try an get my soul free
We are stardust
We are golden
And weve got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

Then can I walk beside you
I have come here to lose the smog
And I feel to be a cog in something turning
Well maybe it is just the time of year
Or maybe its the time of man
I dont know who l am
But you know life is for learning
We are stardust
We are golden
And weve got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

By the time we got to woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere there was song and celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bombers
Riding shotgun in the sky
And they were turning into butterflies
Above our nation
We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devils bargain
And weve got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

belief in evolution requires a leap of faith

As Dawkins always says when asked what it would take for him to stop 'believing' in evolution:
"Fossils in the wrong place"
As you say, no faith involved.

Yes devil. It is all interlinked. But this a kind of anti-science snobbery amongst many arty people. I would have included myself amongst them for a long time.

Dad however is a true Renaissance man. He writes poetry, is fascinated by theology and philosophy and there is nothing he doesn't want to know about. That is I suppose what I aspire to now (apart from the poetry which b and large was execrable).

Blu - definitely cake.

Working on the manifesto - so far in no particular order :-

Just because you can explain something or you want to explain something doesn't stop it being wonderful, awe inspiring and magical.

If something can't be repeated in scientifically controlled conditions it probably doesn't work.

There is nothing that can't be questioned.

Feel free to add.

I dont know enough about this to comment - certainly not in debate, but I will get DH to comment. He is a creationish and has very strong views. Hopefully he will jump on tonight

I believe in the existence of God.

I acknowledge the probably correctness of the theory of evolution by natural selection.

We need a better term for scientific "belief"!

probable even

I have been trying to read about vacuum fluctuations - the idea of energy coming from absolutely nothing, which is fascinating, seems very relevant to the 'what was before' questions, but it makes my head hurt. For those desiring a mental workout this morning try this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy The 'simple' version. Ow.