What do creationists make of the Cern experiment today?

[beansprout]

It's getting a huge amount of coverage here in the UK. Is it getting much coverage in the US? What do people with a different viewpoint make of it?

Sorry, but it is idiotic to say you don't 'believe' in evolution. It's just a fact - just like a round earth is a fact.
Do you realise that these collisions, these cosmic rays, happen all the time in nature, in the earth's atmosphere? And we're all still here.
Blimey, and I'm an arts grad!

Agree with stitch.

funky, if we are sucked into a black hole, it will be instantaneous and we wont know what hit us. we'll be dead.
however, as i understand, blackholes have only ever been postulated, and never actually observed. ie, the maths around theobservable phenomen shows us that such things are likely to exist in the cosmos, but we have never actually been able to point to one and say, look there is a black hole.

pure science for the sake of it is also very very human. its also civilisation. ie, we are no longer simply doing the hunter gathering to ensure we continue to exist.

and quite frankly, i would rather be sucked into a black hole, than die of nuclear winter.

I don't get people's logic.

You are saying -
There must of been something before the big bang and because they can't tell us what it is, there was no big bang. And therefore there was God.

Where exactly did God come from then.

And also, the big bang does not mean that some stuff exploded, it's a more complex theory than that.

I would quite like to be sucked into a black hole right now. Or maybe just have my DH sucked into one.

I think I might call CERN; perhaps they can assist.

If God was the Old Bloke In A Robe that people who don't get God think he is, he would be smiling at all this. I bet H/She's smiling anyway.

mAbanna, evolution is not a proven fact. people believe itis. but it isnt.

believing the earth is flat is not osmething that we should laugh at. after all, how many of you can actually prove the earth is a ball? the observable phenomenon in daily life shows it to be flat. it is only maths, pure science, that has shown it to be spherical

Talk to me about fossils, Lewisfan?

Meretta God is. God is All That Is, we are all part of God and therefore of eacho ther. The Universe(s) is/are the same; that which God made.

no maretta. the thing about the big bang is, is that there are no observable remnants of what was there before the big bang.
nothing. nada.
whatever did or did not exist, was obliterated by this event.

what i am saying is that the big bang and creationism ie, saying that god created everything in an instant, are simply two different names to the same story

I do believe in evolution but I don't think it's fair that people on here who don't believe are getting comments thrown at them because they don't agree with the same things we do.

mabanana, are you sure you're an arts grad and not a secret CERN employee ? You seem to know as much about the experiment as they do

Yes, but still believing that the earth is flat AFTER science has shown it to be round is laughable, surely?

Why stitch. What is your case against?

I also believe in creation. However - beleiveing in creation does not preclude a belief in evolution , it just precludes a belief that fish crawled out of the sea and developed lungs and became animals and that the precursor to man was a monkey.

Evolution did occur and does continually occur - but on a small scale - within species but not cross species and not creating new species as it does.

The CERN experiement is very interesting and I fully support most scientific experiments and forays into the unknown. CERN does not make me lose sleep but at thet back of my mind there is a tiny concern that if hawking radiation does not exist ( it is only a non-proven theory as Hawking himself admits) then any black holes created will not shrink but will expand. I still find it incredulous that such a scenario could happen though and these type of end of the world scares happen fairly regularly. I am sure all will go well and that new discoveries will be made.

There is no conflict in my mind between believing in creation and the CERN experiment. The CERN experiement seeks to recreate conditions exisitng at the big bang. If it does so it will not disprove creationism or prove evolution as someone still has to answer/prove who made the particles, protons , heat and speed to create the big bang and who set them off moving in the right direction etc to create a big bang. So far the non creationist scientists assert that there was nothing before the existance of particles etc but cannot answer who made the particles and heat and energy etc or indeed who made the vast nothingness that they assert was there before. So in my mind there is no conflict.

I am interested in this thing in Gen 2v4 that says a day can be period of time

I suspect that London Underground used this theory when choosing the "Min" as their unit to express the random waiting time for the next train.

I am in no way religious therefore can't comment on this man in white robe with big wand creating big bangs (other than to say that I personally don't believe in it!)

worth reading (but warning! You might learn something, which is clearly mad and dangerous)

64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:N7MsfGLDrsUJ:www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/sep/01/schools.research+g enetic+drift+dawkins&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk

People are allowed to believe what they want to believe, folks. Some of you are getting quite funny with LF and others. Why? They have their beliefs and that's fine. You disagree and that's fine. (I disagree with them too, as it happens! ) but they are entitled to believe what they want and they don't have to justify it to anyone. I just think this thread is in danger of turning into a total bunfight with poor LF etc being hounded. I'd just hate to see that, all I'm saying is think about what you're typing and how it's coming over as an attack. It doesn't MATTER to you what someone else chooses to believe and it's not a threat to your own beliefs and you don't need to become aggressive or try to make them see it your way.

maretta, the big bang isnt about some stuff exploding as you say. it is instead, about EVERYTHING exploding. being pushed out of this infinitesimal space instantly. all the mass of the entire universe, all packed into what was either no space, ie non measurable, or tiny space, ie measurebale. that was the only point in the known universe that the law of thermodynamics which states that energy can be neither created, nor destroyed, does not apply.

I wonder if beansprout knew what she was starting with this thread lol

I disagree, the earth appears round - it curves. That is why nearly everyone believed the earth to be round before we had telescopes or space travel.
Of course it is OK to laugh at people who believe the earth to be flat.
And evolution is real, proven and is happening right now.

stich - Actually, I can prove the earth is a ball. If you look out on a 'flat' landscape you can't see very far at all, the earth curves away from you.

I am pretty convinced evolution is part of the story of life on earth, we have evidence for evolution in the past and it still happens in ways we can observe. Why would I ignore the evidence of my senses? It doesn't get in the way of my belief in a creator, the first organism still had to come from somewhere.

I'm not able to believe in God. I do believe evolution works as a theory but can sort of understand the opinions of those who think it doesn't work. I think you have to make a small leap of faith, and accept that happy accidents occurred to make things evolve. Creationists seem able to make the leap of faith where god's concerned, but not where evolution's concerned. Not meaning to criticise, just find it interesting.

i am not out to prove any point. i just love the big bang theory. it is the sense of drama.
what i dont like is how people harp on about evolution being a fact. it isnt. believe in it if you want to. but dont go on and on about it as if it were rock solid fact.
natural selection happens all the time. not evolution. darwin's evolution was really just natural selection. which is observable, and measurable, and can be proved to be a fact.
evolution cant.

and yes, belioeving the earth is still flat is laughable, if you also believe that maths and science exist. but if you dont believe in them, then whyshould you believe what they expostulate? particularly when what they aresaying goes against all observable, by you, phenomenon

Here is a book that tells the story, for children, (but v handy for adults too IMO) of an opinion about how/why the Big Bang happened.

evolution may be real. it may be happening right now. but it isnt proven.
natural selection is. which is something quite different from evolution.

evolution and believing in God are not mutually contrdictive. some very religious nutters people i know believe quite militantly in evolution.

What's the difference between natural selection and evolution then?