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Scripture to confirm that Jesus Christ is the Only true Son of God.,

1000 replies

Justmerach · 19/01/2026 15:47

Hi, I was following the “Do you believe in God thread” and it seems to have been closed. I read a post and wanted to reply to somebody who said that Jesus is not the Son of God. I just wanted to reply to them that why in Christianity in the scripture that we know that Jesus is the Son of God and explain why in my faith scripture supports that Jesus Christ is Only true Son of God.

Jesus is the Son of God but was also a prophet. He is also the redeemer to come as this post will explain.

Let me first say first in all three faiths we share much of the Old Testament and believe in the same God. I remember this topic right from my university days comparative studies between all three faiths.

I want to share a document about the Messiah prophecies about Jesus Christ to come that are in the Old Testament and commonly used online.

The Messiah prophecies have all be attached can be clicked on saved and enlarged. It comes in five images.

The word Christ and its Hebrew parallel means the anointed one which Christ is. Not added to that document above and to come to your attention-The Rod of Jesse in Isaiah 11 is also a prophecy of Jesus Christ to come. The Rod of Jesse/root of Jesse was the last rod for Jews and culminated with the Lord. Christians on this rod are his followers itself. God’s famous rods started with Aaron which placed which was placed in the arc of Covenant as a reminder and bore flowers as a promise of regeneration for the Jews. Jesus became as Christians our vine and we became him branches in the New Testament (John 15).

A photo of the Rod of Jesse from a church collection willl be attched in the next post.

It is Jesus the redeemer and heir to David who will redeem us all and the Jews to from exile-Jesus is from the offspring and roots of David (Revelation 22: 16). Some Jews believe that the Messiah prophecies are for David to come, but this is inaccurate and it is Jesus who will redeem them. "I will set up thy seed after thee (after King David), which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son (2 Samuel 7 12-13). God in this scripture also called David his servant and said that his Son was to come.

This scripture further points that Jesus Christ will be the one to redeem the Jewish people. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord our righteousness Jeremiah (23: 1-6). David will return in the new Jerusalem (Hosea 3:4-5).

Jesus is also known as the Prince of Peace and more attributes which do not point to who is to come as being a mere mortal being and this is mentioned in (Isaiah 9:6). “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

God also confirms in the New Testament Jesus as his only Begeotteon beloved Son –“this is my Beloved only son who I am well pleased" (John 3:16 ). Then in Luke Jesus was asked to this question if was the Son of God and Jesus said that yes he is the Son of God (Luke 22:70). He does not lie and the God the Father simply does not lie as well.

The miracles and healing he gave as we all saw in the New Testament that Jesus Christ ministry gave are well known in the New Testament around 40 in number they were as recorded in the Bible and I saw too with my own eyes in church and in my life, the healing that he gave me. I saw a child who could not walk once an after a few times of healing work at church he started to walk again. This was a miracle of Jesus Christ in our era. It is Jesus Christ who primarily who approves the gifts of the Holy Spirit this as he is the head of the church who appoints these gifts and roles of ministry (Ephesians 4:11).

The Church Body which are made of human beings are the members of the church and Jesus is also the head of the Church and we are part of this body (Ephesians 1:22-23). He promised to send believers a comforter after his resurrection Christ as a Christian gave me the spoken comforter which is the Holy Spirit (John 4:11)? The comforter is the Holy Spirit you receive when you are baptised of water and spirit..

The Son of God is an expression which indentified Jesus of Nazareth as the being who has had an eternal relationship to his Father (Psalm 2:7 ) "You are my Son; today I have become your Father." "You are my Son; today I have become your Father." Christ claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 4:3; 8: 29; 27:54). (Matthew 4:3; 8: 29; 27:54). This too makes clear that Jesus is the Son of God (John 5:18). Also in the New Testament the term the Son of God appears in the New Testament almost 50 times. God also confessed that Jesus was his son at his baptism and at the transfiguration (Matthew 3:16, 17; 17: 5). Jesus also said that he is the Son of God (John 4:15) Revelation (2:18) (John 20:31) (Matthew 4:3) (II Corinthians 1:19) (Luke 8:28), the Jewish Sanhedrin condemned Jesus for blasphemy (Matthew 26: 63-66); (Mark 14 :61).

Jesus also was eighty times called the Son of Man which means God and the Messiah for humans in the New Testament. In Psalm 80 he was also called the Son of Man and was to called the Son of Man throughout Ezekiel to.

Jesus came to life as a mortal divine being through an Immaculate Conception. Angel Gabriel told Jesus' mortal mother to be Mary that she would overpowered by the Holy Spirit and receive a child and that would be God's Son.

This story is found in the Gospels- (Luke 1:26-38)-" And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David". The book of Luke is considered a highly reliable historical source which I know nearly all my life and it is the word of God.

I think in some countries more signs of Christ and the Holy Spirit presence will convince more people that Jesus is the Son of God and that eternal life is near and they will a season at least a while and will stay like young cubs parked with a lion on grass with him.

More history confirming Jesus Christ life is the Dead Sea Scrolls-
The Dead Sea scrolls contain (Isaiah 53) prophecy which is about Jesus Christ life to come. These scrolls were found in caves south of Jericho in the Dead Sea are and contain Biblical evidence the period of time between the end of the Old Testament and the beginning of the New Testament. There are two scrolls Isaiah, one being complete. To our understanding of the period of time between the end of the Old Testament and the beginning of the New Testament times, and to a better understanding of Hebrew and Aramaic.

We have done the 1st resurrection of Christ and are waiting for the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) which will happen in a twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) and then will come the 2nd judgement and second coming and judgement and then New Earth/Heaven.

We should be working in the field till he comes-"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Matthew 24:20).

Scripture to confirm that Jesus Christ is the Only true Son of God.,
Scripture to confirm that Jesus Christ is the Only true Son of God.,
Scripture to confirm that Jesus Christ is the Only true Son of God.,
Scripture to confirm that Jesus Christ is the Only true Son of God.,
Scripture to confirm that Jesus Christ is the Only true Son of God.,
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GarlicBound · 10/02/2026 07:52

Thanks, @RedTagAlan.

In various cultures at various times, married girls weren't expected to have sex until their later teens, when they could more reasonably be expected to give birth safely. This has varied a lot, though - and such protection couldn't have been possible when marriage was enacted through consummation. As you say, many girls would've been obliged to have sex at 8 or 9, thus risking pregnancy.
Poor kids.

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 08:18

RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 04:18

Quote:" You do not seem to very interested in knowing about scripture or the actual faith."

This says it all really. But not in the way you might think. What this says, to me anyway, is that you appear to be totally unwilling to do any reasoned thinking based on evidence you see.

The evidence on these pages is that there is not a single poster here who does not know scripture, or the Bible. I thought I know the Bible well ( apart from the middle bit), but my knowledge is well behind many other posters here. It should be totally clear to anyone reading this thread that "knowing about scripture " is not lacking here. And there are no tell tale signs of AI being used, not by your discussion opponents anyway.

I myself use an Bible study program called e-Sword. It's free to download for PC, and I highly recommend it. I have about 20 different Bibles loaded into mine, together with various Hebrew and Greek dictionaries. It works offline as a standalone tool, allows me to view bibles in parallel, instantly look up verses, and to easily cut and paste to here. Plug over :-) It's honestly the best free app I have found for Bible stuff. And I have tried a few.

So , to quote an earlier post you made :

"Justmerach · Today 02:39

"Bowels" is often used metaphorically to describe the innermost parts of a person:
In 2 Samuel 7:12 and Genesis 15:4, God promises David that his successor will proceed "out of his bowels," meaning a direct blood descendant (son) to continue his lineage.
In essence, the phrase means that Jesus (the Seed) proceeds from the will of God to bring life and fulfill God's promises in the hearts of believers."

Part post copied above to minimize wall of text. What I do when you post something so detailed is I cut and paste your post into a word processor, then I can work through the verses you mention. Looking them up on e-Sword, to see what they actually say, if to see if it matches what you claim it says.

And very often, it does not. And that is what people are pointing out to you. But when posters challenge you on your interpretation, you appear to just skip to a different subject.

So yup. There is no lack of Bible knowledge in this thread. Indeed, it's us "other posters" who want to do deep dives into verses you mention. "Can we pause and examine this verse" sort of thing, instead of jumping to another different subject and being presented a list of another dozen verses.

@Justmerach, do you concede that lack of Bible knowledge is not an issue here ?

Threads can veer somewhat. The point of though this post though was about scripture and using scripture to show that Jesus is the Son of God through scripture through the Bible. It also was to show that Jesus can support Christians through the Holy Spirit as he is the one who appoints their roles with the gifts of the Holy Spiirt. There was a conversation about this and a forum member didn't seem to think it was necessary to be led by the spirit and develop in the spirit as a Christian.

The Bible doesn't support this and I replied with the necessary information, For someone to take issue with that seemed to be missing a bit what the thread was about and it was not preaching.

I made it clear I myself didn't need to and couldn't go further with the incarnation discussion in ways that they seemed to want, but if someone wanted to they could do what they like in ways I hope I would be respectful.

I have studied religion and have no need further to study it as such, but believe in and trust in it, but that is me today and trying to make things understood is good with the faith. Of course some discussions may be had but some may not be spiritual.

The Holy Spirit can do mysterious workings and I trust that and it is ok for me. It is clear that Jesus came from God's nature which is unknown to us. Mary was conscreated and purfied and born as the Immaculate Conception. Further than this I don't need to go further myself.

I know that 2 Samuel 7 is about Jesus, the rest of the Old Testatment scripture confirm it. You say you are an absolutist, what do you think about this in your heart? Who do you think it is based on what you have seen and experienced thousands of years on.

OP posts:
Judgejudysno1fan · 10/02/2026 08:25

RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 07:43

Not 14 years old. Consummated when she was 9. Married at 6 or 7.

But TBH, I know very little about Islam, so one for @Judgejudysno1fan I think.

My understanding is that Mary, mother of Jesus was have been early teens. But that's by conventions of the time as you know, not recorded.

My DD is 13. Imagine what my reaction would be if she grew a bump and claimed it was the "holy spirit". Some "smiting" of the holy spirit would be in order, that's for sure. And criminal charges.

Its very easy to understand because a lot of people say its paedophilia but islam is the fastest growing religion in the world which means over 2 billion of us and growing would agree with paedophilia.

In those days , girls.matured faster, grew faster and reached puberty earlier. This instance of Aisha may Allah be pleased with her, was a young lady who was very well educated and was able to record the hadiths of prophet Muhammed during his last days. A small child would not be so eloquent to do this at such a young age. Her father Abu bakar had suggested the idea of her marrying Prophet Muhammed when she becomes older as she knew he was honest, kind and trust worthy. She was already having periods and another hadith suggests she was an older teenager as her sister recorded in a hadith that she was 29 when Aisha married Prophet Muhammed and Aisha is 10 years younger than. Me. Her name is Asma. There was no raping of a child, sex with a child.
She stayed married to him until his death and after he died she still continued to write hadiths (collections of his life stories and how he carried himself) he was a very decent, kind, honest and honourable person. A Christian monk met him when when he was an orphaned child walking with his uncle and said to the uncle that this man has a bright future ahead of him. There are also other lovely stories about how kind and patient he was. He hated gossip and backstabbing. And one day he noticed an older lady struggling with her bags moving out of the village he lived and he offered to help and he asked her why are you leaving the town and she said I heard rheres an awful.magician calls himself propeht Muhammed and im getting far away as possible. Prophet Muhammed said nothing until she got to where she was going and he passed her the bags and she said thank you.so much for helping me. He said no problem.youre welcome. She asked him his name and he said I am Muhammed. And she saw that he was a peaceful person and became Muslim another occasion an older woman of a house would always throw her garbage at him as he would walk past her home every day without fail. But he never retaliated. One day he walked past and saw that she was no longer than as she would usually be there throwing old food, crap and just yelling insults at him. He asked a neighbour where is the woman of this house put of concern.the neighbour replied shes in her home extremely sick. And he said please permit me and go with me to enter the home.to check in on her so he entered ans the lady was on her bed very ill. Prophet Muhammed asked her if she was ok. She was shocked she thought he came to get his own back. He said no I was concerned about you as youre usually outside. She then realised you really are the prophet Muhammed. She also became Muslim and there are many more wonderful stories.

In bible stories Rebecca married at 3, there are others who married young even suggestions inthink of mother mary being 12, a lot of girls were married young as in those days time frames of ages/growth/puberty/adulthood was different . Even noah lived i think until in his hundreds and was still active and doing things. Times change and move on. Obviously now in modern times, a 6 year old is a 6 year old and still a young child, not going through high academia or puberty.
Unless you refer to those super brainy channel 4 kids shows haha !!!

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 09:12

About Rebecca being 3 years old I saw this-it seems that this information not is to be trusted.

"The idea that Rebekah was 3 years old when she married Isaac stems from traditional Jewish, non-scriptural, medieval commentary (such as
Rashi citing Seder Olam Rabbah) aiming to chronologically link the binding of Isaac with her birth. However, the Biblical text in Genesis 24 portrays her as a mature "maiden" (na'arah) capable of laborious tasks, suggesting she was likely in her teens, not a toddler. [that is random for the internet]

In ancient Judaism the society was different to and for many women that was their role to be a mother. Mary was engaged to Joseph before she married him. The birth of Jesus was created as we know without Joseph. In the old times I do prefer that they are not damsels under 12, but I know some people may claim girls at a young age, but make the relationship more binding until later in age. I want to write something more positive.
There are religious women to in ancient Judaism that were in the ministry and quite robust with their faith like Miriam, Hudlah,Noadia, Deboorah and later in the New Testatment there was Anna to and Philip the evangelist four daughter's. In the Old Testament women tended work as female prophets. Esther in the Old Testament was conscreated as well
In Christianity Jesus is the care-taker of children.

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RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 12:06

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 08:18

Threads can veer somewhat. The point of though this post though was about scripture and using scripture to show that Jesus is the Son of God through scripture through the Bible. It also was to show that Jesus can support Christians through the Holy Spirit as he is the one who appoints their roles with the gifts of the Holy Spiirt. There was a conversation about this and a forum member didn't seem to think it was necessary to be led by the spirit and develop in the spirit as a Christian.

The Bible doesn't support this and I replied with the necessary information, For someone to take issue with that seemed to be missing a bit what the thread was about and it was not preaching.

I made it clear I myself didn't need to and couldn't go further with the incarnation discussion in ways that they seemed to want, but if someone wanted to they could do what they like in ways I hope I would be respectful.

I have studied religion and have no need further to study it as such, but believe in and trust in it, but that is me today and trying to make things understood is good with the faith. Of course some discussions may be had but some may not be spiritual.

The Holy Spirit can do mysterious workings and I trust that and it is ok for me. It is clear that Jesus came from God's nature which is unknown to us. Mary was conscreated and purfied and born as the Immaculate Conception. Further than this I don't need to go further myself.

I know that 2 Samuel 7 is about Jesus, the rest of the Old Testatment scripture confirm it. You say you are an absolutist, what do you think about this in your heart? Who do you think it is based on what you have seen and experienced thousands of years on.

Edited

@Justmerach

This was my question : " do you concede that lack of Bible knowledge is not an issue here ?"

That ^ was your answer.

My question was laid out with evidence of how I know Bible stuff, my methods etc, and my statement that other posters here know more about the Bible than me. but you avoid even answering such a simple question.

As a PP mentioned earlier, as an evangelist you are not a good advert for your faith.

Can you not just give one straight answer, in this good faith discussion ?

Again, do you concede that lack of Bible knowledge is not an issue here ?

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 13:23

RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 12:06

@Justmerach

This was my question : " do you concede that lack of Bible knowledge is not an issue here ?"

That ^ was your answer.

My question was laid out with evidence of how I know Bible stuff, my methods etc, and my statement that other posters here know more about the Bible than me. but you avoid even answering such a simple question.

As a PP mentioned earlier, as an evangelist you are not a good advert for your faith.

Can you not just give one straight answer, in this good faith discussion ?

Again, do you concede that lack of Bible knowledge is not an issue here ?

I am not going to reply to you, I find your post quite rude so I will not reply.

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RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 13:30

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 13:23

I am not going to reply to you, I find your post quite rude so I will not reply.

Ha ha.

Well it is you who appears to be saying nobody here has knowledge of the bible apart from your good self. I am just trying to clarify if that is the case.

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 13:34

RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 13:30

Ha ha.

Well it is you who appears to be saying nobody here has knowledge of the bible apart from your good self. I am just trying to clarify if that is the case.

I started the thread about supportive scripture that shows that Jesus is the Son of God in the Bible. This was also about the Holy Spirit and how Jesus gives believers their gifts today. This thread was not intended to be about studying the faith and taking it apart and evaluating its credibility. Do you understand this it has been turned into whatever you want. If it goes further than that ok, but that is not the intention and if I want to post on the original question then I am free to do so.

If people say something that is not correct I can post scripture to put what is true. Don’t tell what I can post or not post.
Regards to your question-I don’t particularly like it. You would think if someone had the faith at some point then would at least know the core things of the faith or more. I don't like to guess what people may know in their knowledge and it is not so important.

What I did think at times of yourself as you had the faith for 20 years and was asking things like how could XYZ be and you believed it at one point and you asking me unravel this for you, sometimes without saying why. I have nothing here, my views are not as yours. I don't wish to continue this discussion further with you and stop manufacturing things I didn't say or do.

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Wapentake · 10/02/2026 16:33

@Justmerach -- respectfully, do you not have much contact with people outside your particular brand of Christianity?

You seem very easily rattled by debate with people who have knowledge of the development of early Christianity, Christian doctrines and the various texts and assembly of the Bible in its various forms, but who aren't believers.

If your faith can't stand up to a bit of debate, or contact with unbelievers asking you why you believe what you believe, or who want to play something other than Bible Bingo, surely it's a bit wobbly and unfit for purpose?

Terrribletwos · 10/02/2026 16:44

@Justmerach I found it a bit concerning when you quoted that girls in past times were earlier developed in puberty. Where did you get this information from?

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 16:49

Terrribletwos · 10/02/2026 16:44

@Justmerach I found it a bit concerning when you quoted that girls in past times were earlier developed in puberty. Where did you get this information from?

It was not me who wrote this at all. I think you may want to reread JudgeJudynos1 post as I remember reading something like this in their post.

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Wapentake · 10/02/2026 17:03

Terrribletwos · 10/02/2026 16:44

@Justmerach I found it a bit concerning when you quoted that girls in past times were earlier developed in puberty. Where did you get this information from?

I think that specific comment was by @Judgejudysno1fan.

It's nonsense either way, of course. Osteoarchaeology is able to determine approximate ages of the different stages of puberty in skeletons by examining specific teeth, neck and wrist bones and the fusion of elbows, wrists and pelvises, and cervical vertebrae. The period for which there's most studies is the early medieval period, but there's also been work done on skeletons from Roman Britain.

The age at which boys and girls entered puberty, based on these samples from Romano-British burial sites in London and Oxfordshire (first to fifth centuries BCE, so during the lifetimes of Mohammed and Aisha), was around the same as today, around 10-12 years, though girls started periods later (approximately 15-17).

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.22929

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 17:05

Wapentake · 10/02/2026 16:33

@Justmerach -- respectfully, do you not have much contact with people outside your particular brand of Christianity?

You seem very easily rattled by debate with people who have knowledge of the development of early Christianity, Christian doctrines and the various texts and assembly of the Bible in its various forms, but who aren't believers.

If your faith can't stand up to a bit of debate, or contact with unbelievers asking you why you believe what you believe, or who want to play something other than Bible Bingo, surely it's a bit wobbly and unfit for purpose?

Some of the posts have been baiting and not civil. I did not wish get dragged into it. Some people may be giving me their self perceived views of others for myself not knowing me. I have also said I do not follow a demonination,suffice to say as I am non demoninational.

I saw no case against for you what you had an issue at all and also. I have repeated this, some didn't know why I had to mention old scripture with new scripture and they didn't understand. It was needed in this post.

If you wanted further research you could done so yourself.

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RedTagAlan · 10/02/2026 18:20

@Justmerach

Quote from your last post :

"If you wanted further research you could done so yourself."

We have.

In my case, it was my research that led me to being atheist.

And the first step in that research was not ignoring the contradictions in the Bible, not hand waving the "bad bits" away, and applying a bit of logic to the whole thing.

Asking questions such as: " Why does God even need a son to forgive sins, when it was God that invented sin?" . And, " Why did God invent sin anyway?"

And the ultimate question is not what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. It's " Why did man invent religion?". And that is really easy to answer, once one looks into it, and once one thinks about it.

Terrribletwos · 10/02/2026 18:22

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 16:49

It was not me who wrote this at all. I think you may want to reread JudgeJudynos1 post as I remember reading something like this in their post.

Edited

@Justmerach sorry! It wasn't you.

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 19:05

I think I extended well over the scope of the original post when I was answering questions earlier in the post and being flexible to. I read or skimmed aome of the information coming at me and would pick out what I saw as needed to be replied by myself. We all have a limited time in our day.

I wanted to repost the post about the Holy Innocents and children in view of some of the discussion today to make it more uplifting to children. I have posted the full version of the sermon as I edited it to make it shorter before as it was not directly on the topic, but it is more relevant here.
................

Well, I think today's gospel reading is undoubtedly the darkest part of the Christmas story. In fact, the massacre, the holy innocence, is probably the most horrific story in the New Testament. And it comes as no surprise, therefore that this has been the least popular biblical passage for preachers.

And I'll be honest, I'm not sure if in 28 years that I've actually preached on this passage. Here we go. And the church historically has often viewed it rather awkwardly. The flight into Egypt rarely appears as a Christmas card illustration. Or so it seems to me. Now, from Matthew's point of view, we are probably being given an insight into King Herod's true cruel and grotesque character, ordering the brutal killing of every newborn child in Bethlehem under the age of two in order to get rid of the threat he saw in the infant Jesus to his own authority. The whole idea is so abhorrent.

And the feast of the holy innocence, sometimes referred to as children mass,
is a festival that seems to hang heavy in the Christian liturgical calendar.
And the church tried to make it a little more acceptable by regarding the murdered children as the first Christian martyrs, even if unknowingly so. Now if such a story was true, it would be the very height of human barbarism. But most scholars tell us there is no factual basis for this story. So we cannot know for sure of well its historicity is in doubt. But it almost certainly developed out of the story of Pharaoh's attempt to kill the Israelite children as related in the book of Exodus. but as told in an expanded version that was doing the rounds in the first century.

But the lack of any solid historical evidence for this story does not negate its power to move us. It still resonates with horrific accuracy, the most evil and depraved tendencies in human nature. And from a biblical standpoint, this tragic story has been taken to emphasize the story of sacrifice and salvation in the bigger picture.

But it also speaks of how vulnerable children have been in the face of brutal
governmental power. In fact, if we look through the whole of
human history, we find that children have not really fared well in adult
communities at all. Historically, children were often seen as a property. They were very much regarded as miniature adults.

In the Middle Ages, forced child labour was prevalent throughout Europe.
Children worked as soon as they were able. 8 to 9year-olds were being sent out in the fields to work brutally long hours. Children were subjected to all kinds of
abuse. Education was minimal and they had limited rights if indeed they had any rights at all. So, it's not surprising that there was high infant mortality and children fared a little better around the period of the so-called enlightenment.

During the industrial revolution, children became cheap labour in dangerous factories, mines, and mills, facing all kinds of exploitation and abuse. Young girls were forced into prostitution. a situation which tragically still continues in some parts of the world today. Many children ended up in criminal gangs. Charles Dickens, of course, was well aware of the exploitation of children in London's underworld, graphically depicted in the memorable story of Oliver Twist.

But there have been some interesting historical glimpses of concern for
children. Hints of light in the darkness of Holy Innocence Day. In the medieval Northern Europe, the day was a festival of inversion involving role reversal between children, adults such as teachers and priests.

And the December tradition, which I'm sure many of you know of, of electing a boy bishop to preside over certain church services, is an extraordinary example of bringing the value of children into greater prominence.

In Northern England, children were indulged on this day. Parties were held for them. And in some localities, shock horror, they were allowed to play in the church.

There was the slow realization perhaps that children should allow be allowed to
be children. They needed a childhood. They needed play and discovery. Different views on infancy have prevailed over recent centuries. But the rise of organized faith traditions placed an emphasis on the divine element present in children as well as acknowledging their innocence, purity and of course their vulnerability.

And this journey shows a very gradual and rather uneven recognition of
childhood. But in enlightened cultures, children now have rights,
welfare education opportunities, and hopefully a family life. We recognize it is morally necessary to protect each child's rights, dignity, and well-being. And we now have established child safeguarding practices and laws. So the biblical story, true or not, emphasizes how vulnerable children have always been.

And this festival should remind us of the sanctity of childhood. a timeless reminder of our continued obligation and moral duty to defend and protect the rights of our children who are the most vulnerable among us. We cannot sugarcoat the messages that emerge out of the original story of the massacre of the holy innocence. We cannot be complacent. Many children today still face issues including violence, exploitation, neglect, and limited access to health care and education. So groups like the NPCC and the Children's Society still have a big role to play.

And of course, the digital era has brought its own challenges for safeguarding.
Children are now at risk from improper internet use or content, cyber bullying
and online exploitation. And the greatest and most painful shame
we have to acknowledge is the abuse that has occurred within the Christian church in recent times. So the work continues.

We know that Jesus recognized the lowly status of children in his own culture
and sought to challenge that. Remember, he rebuked his disciples for turning
them away. He loved children and he blessed them. Jesus love for children demonstrated to the world that true greatness lies in serving the vulnerable, welcoming them as we would welcome Jesus himself.

OP posts:
GarlicBound · 10/02/2026 19:55

That's true, @Justmerach. In Europe, the concept of childhood was more or less invented around the 17th century. The philosopher John Locke introduced the idea of the child as a blank slate, on whom adults had a responsibility to write the knowledge and values children need growing up. From there, the idea of childhood as a special state slowly developed. It was hundreds more years before we saw children as different from tiny adults after the age of about 7, though. Kids were apprenticed to work from around 6 or 7.

Throughout the world, children have been viewed as 'competent' from 7 years old. This is basically because they can talk properly at that age. Without a formal education system, there are no milestones beyond "Can this small person understand and carry out instructions, and can they tell someone if there's a problem?"

When you look at photos of African tribes, especially the women, you see little kids helping to process vegetables, grind grains and make clothing. This has long been the natural way to integrate children's skills and knowledge into the community, with the aim of ensuring they have a useful life.

I didn't know how this process has played out in the Middle East so, with apologies, here's Professor Google:

In the pre-modern Middle East, childhood was not just a biological stage but a legal and religious status. Islamic law (Sharia) created specific categories that protected children while outlining their path to maturity.
Childhood was divided into phases:

  • Saba (Infancy/Early childhood).
  • Tamyiz (The age of discernment, usually around 7), where a child could distinguish right from wrong.
  • Bulugh (Puberty/Adulthood), the point of full legal responsibility.
  • The "Rights" of the Child: Historically, children had the right to nafaqa (maintenance/support), education, and lineage recognition.
  • The Role of the Father: While mothers provided primary care, the father held the wilaya (guardianship), making decisions regarding marriage and property.
So - same as everywhere else, for thousands of years.

I realise there's still an ongoing battle in many places, between more enlightened concepts of childhood as a vulnerable condition requiring protection, and traditional values adhering to the age-old pattern. Many cases from the Arab states and the Indian continent have made the news in recent years, where girls as young as 10 have died in childbirth because their bodies are too small and immature. This must have happened all over the place, all the time, in older societies. Most shocking to me is the men's attitudes, saying they were within their rights and the girls were faulty 😡

GarlicBound · 10/02/2026 20:08

The USA is the only UN member not to have ratified the Rights of the Child. American law on child marriage is very messy, with some states having no legal age of consent and several permitting marriage to a girl of any age by her rapist.

Nearly 300,00 children were married in the U.S. between 2000 and 2018. The vast majority were girls wed to adult men.
https://equalitynow.org/what-we-do/womens-rights-around-the-world/womens-rights-in-north-america/child_marriage_us/

Child Marriage in the United States

Child marriage is currently legal in 34 states, and 4 U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage, with a parental or judicial waiver.* Nearly 300,000 children were married in the U.S. between 2000 and 2018.

https://equalitynow.org/what-we-do/womens-rights-around-the-world/womens-rights-in-north-america/child_marriage_us/

GarlicBound · 10/02/2026 20:19

One more observation (sorry!) In Semitic societies, age begins at 1. They count up to the next birthday, not down as we do. So a 9-year-old girl to the Hebrews and Arabs is aged 8 by our reckoning.

Parker231 · 10/02/2026 22:06

Justmerach · 10/02/2026 13:34

I started the thread about supportive scripture that shows that Jesus is the Son of God in the Bible. This was also about the Holy Spirit and how Jesus gives believers their gifts today. This thread was not intended to be about studying the faith and taking it apart and evaluating its credibility. Do you understand this it has been turned into whatever you want. If it goes further than that ok, but that is not the intention and if I want to post on the original question then I am free to do so.

If people say something that is not correct I can post scripture to put what is true. Don’t tell what I can post or not post.
Regards to your question-I don’t particularly like it. You would think if someone had the faith at some point then would at least know the core things of the faith or more. I don't like to guess what people may know in their knowledge and it is not so important.

What I did think at times of yourself as you had the faith for 20 years and was asking things like how could XYZ be and you believed it at one point and you asking me unravel this for you, sometimes without saying why. I have nothing here, my views are not as yours. I don't wish to continue this discussion further with you and stop manufacturing things I didn't say or do.

Edited

So it’s ok for you to post incorrect information but no one is allowed to challenge?

Mydoglovescheese · 10/02/2026 22:36

@Justmerach Posts of this nature are controversial and the developing discussion tends to branch in different directions. Stating that you only wished to make a statement, but that your OP has been derailed is rather naive. That’s not the way discussion boards work.

If you decide to post, as you did, such a controversial statement you must expect challenges from people who don’t share your viewpoint. This board is primarily to discuss philosophy and religion and that is exactly what has happened. It’s not a board for Christians to state their beliefs and expect them to be accepted as truth.

I’ve been very impressed by the Biblical knowledge demonstrated by the main protagonists. They have argued their cases well and used your own Scriptures to support their comments.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions but please accept that others may differ and have the right to challenge your comments.

As I mentioned before, you may be better posting on the Christian Mumsnetters board, although even there you’ll find conflict and disagreement.

Justmerach · 11/02/2026 05:17

Parker231 · 10/02/2026 22:06

So it’s ok for you to post incorrect information but no one is allowed to challenge?

This is not true at all and there was a minor correction in the main post which was not a scripture. This was checked by others before posting and by myself and guided by scripture and trusted sources.

Other than this-Your so called wrong information for you is saying that the virgin birth didn't happen if it is stated in scripture and I should not post it . Also your wrong information using supporting scripture is to say that the rescurrection is not possible. Now I don't mind discussing this one, but I posted four sources to the first question above I said you should do your own research and bring it here if you want, I didn't want to respond to that though further that what I wrote for the reasons I gave.

I don't mind people commenting as long as it is civil.

OP posts:
Justmerach · 11/02/2026 06:32

Mydoglovescheese · 10/02/2026 22:36

@Justmerach Posts of this nature are controversial and the developing discussion tends to branch in different directions. Stating that you only wished to make a statement, but that your OP has been derailed is rather naive. That’s not the way discussion boards work.

If you decide to post, as you did, such a controversial statement you must expect challenges from people who don’t share your viewpoint. This board is primarily to discuss philosophy and religion and that is exactly what has happened. It’s not a board for Christians to state their beliefs and expect them to be accepted as truth.

I’ve been very impressed by the Biblical knowledge demonstrated by the main protagonists. They have argued their cases well and used your own Scriptures to support their comments.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions but please accept that others may differ and have the right to challenge your comments.

As I mentioned before, you may be better posting on the Christian Mumsnetters board, although even there you’ll find conflict and disagreement.

There is no need to post this on the Christian mums section. You would assume most Christians would agree that Jesus Christ is the Son of God as that is a central tenent of the faith, they probably already know this.

This thread was intended for those interested in the topic of the post and also it was aimed at those who have the Abrahamic faiths, Islam, Chirstianity and Judaism, so this forum was the ideal place for this post. The post was posted here as a forum member posted that Jesus was not the Son of God just that day in the Do you believe in God thread and I wanted to respond in that post but that post was closed due to the limit being reached.

Although, this post to seemed to ruffle the feathers most of those who had left the faith or never had one. I think they misunderstood what it was about, it wasn't really about go and find whatever you never used to find difficult in the Old Testament and then place it here.

Seeing as some later expressed that they had no interest they still asked me to respond and to their sources and fo further research to their questions.

The scripture that I posted was accurate in the main post. What people think of it though is a different matter.

OP posts:
Parker231 · 11/02/2026 07:25

Justmerach · 11/02/2026 05:17

This is not true at all and there was a minor correction in the main post which was not a scripture. This was checked by others before posting and by myself and guided by scripture and trusted sources.

Other than this-Your so called wrong information for you is saying that the virgin birth didn't happen if it is stated in scripture and I should not post it . Also your wrong information using supporting scripture is to say that the rescurrection is not possible. Now I don't mind discussing this one, but I posted four sources to the first question above I said you should do your own research and bring it here if you want, I didn't want to respond to that though further that what I wrote for the reasons I gave.

I don't mind people commenting as long as it is civil.

Edited

Where I have I been uncivil?

Just because it’s in the scriptures doesn’t mean it’s true.

RedTagAlan · 11/02/2026 07:38

@Justmerach

As a matter of interest, when you say above "This was checked by others before posting and by myself and guided by scripture and trusted sources.", do you mean you are posting as a team ? Genuine interest, that's all.

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