Do you believe in god?

[Unicorndreams24]

i have recently been thinking a lot about religion and wondering how many believe in god and also what made you come to the decision of believing?

I think the key difference here is that Christianity doesn’t teach “brownie points” at all — persecution, good behaviour, or suffering don’t earn anyone a place with God. The core claim of the gospel is the opposite: salvation is a gift of grace, not something achieved or accumulated (Ephesians 2:8–9).

When Jesus speaks about persecution, it isn’t as a reward system but as a realistic description of what can happen when someone follows him in a world that doesn’t share that allegiance. It’s not something to seek, perform, or benefit from — and it doesn’t move anyone closer to “the gates.”

At heart, Christianity says belonging to God comes through trusting in Christ, not through suffering, virtue, or opposition — so the idea of needing enemies to earn heaven simply isn’t part of the biblical picture that most Bible-believers would adhere to.

Thanks for your response.

One must always take the whole counsel of scripture into account, to which you’ve rightly alluded.

The fact is everyone suffers in this life - and this isn’t glossed over in scripture, nor is it sugar-coated. We all experience loss, grief, illness, and sometimes poverty, scarcity, broken relationships - the list goes on and on. Christians aren’t exempt from these ‘tribulations’.

And historically on top of all that ‘natural’ suffering, Christians suffered more than those around them, through state organised persecutions and through petty jealousies, hatred and sheer brutality of the people they lived among. Many Christians have experienced this through the two millennia of the church’s existence and increasingly huge numbers suffer today.

But Peter’s message isn’t “God loves you to suffer” as you have misquoted him. His exhortations to rejoice and find hope in trials isn’t a command to seek such difficulties out, but a pastoral message designed to comfort and encourage those already experiencing them. (And yes, of course all Christians are expected to imitate our Lord’s example when experiencing unjust suffering at the hands of our persecutors, not to insult, lie, or threaten them, which was the advice given to slaves. However, unlike slaves, free people may also be able to escape, a theme to which I will shortly return.)

Peter is in his letter, consoling those experiencing unavoidable suffering, encouraging them to see that even in these situations God has not abandoned them nor is He unable to bring something good out of it all. As Joseph said when consoling his distraught brothers for selling him into slavery in Egypt- “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives” (Genesis 50: 20).

Peter is echoing Paul’s message to the Roman church that “…all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.” (Romans 8:28)

If, as you suggest, scripture taught that suffering was to be actively sought out, we would expect to see commands to do so. But we don’t see any such commands.

We see instead the Lord commanding His followers to escape to a safer location when persecuted in a particular place. (eg Matthew 10:23, Matthew 24: 16-20)

We see Paul several times escape physical attack by means of his wits and the ingenuity of his friends. (eg Acts 9;25, v 30)

We see Peter escape from a martyr’s death by the intervention of an angel, rescuing him from prison, and Peter’s subsequent departure to a secret location (Acts 12)

If God desired His beloved children to suffer would He have taught them to seek safety, make escapes, and sent an angelic rescue mission? Can we frame this as “God loves you to suffer”? I don’t believe so. Scripture doesn’t permit it.

Now as for the actions of individuals such as Mother Teresa, or nameless martyrs, I cannot condone their behaviours or motives. That’s a judgement call beyond my authority to make. I will say that the actions of Christians, in all their many forms, are often not indicative of the character and will of God.

We do well not to conflate them.

There is no more evidence for a god than there is for santa or the tooth fairy. There is NO evidence at all for any of them. All are made up by humans

I found this a really helpful response; thank you for sharing.

As one of your resident pedants, I'm giving these prophecies 1/10. The one's amazing, though, if it has been recorded faithfully. Hugh Ross sets a high standard for biblical prophecy, saying it must be 100% accurate to count.

He fails dismally by his own benchmark. Three of the prophecies depend on their own mythology, as @GasperyJacquesRoberts entertainingly parodied using Lord of the Rings. One is real life consciously fulfilling the prophecy (Jerusalem). Two are obvious consequences of world events at the time. Three are wrong. One's really good.

1. According to Moses, [the Romans] would take [Jews] to Egypt in ships, where they would be sold or given away as slaves, and scattered to various parts of the world. The Romans took slaves from every conquered nation and sold them in slave markets around the ancient world. This led to the nation's people being split up, which was a strategic aim. It wasn't specific to Jews, and they never took all the captives from a single nation to one country.
2. Zecharia predicted Christ's crucifixion. No, he didn't. He said the Messiah would have his hands and feet pierced by Gentiles. No mention of a cross.
3. King Jehoshaphat would win an armed rebellion by three allied states without having to fight them. There's no evidence of this Judaean king by name, though he probably did exist. The Mesha stele, cited as evidence for this battle, actually tells the opposite tale٭. Judah formed an alliance with Israel and Edom to put down a rebellion by its vassal state Moab. Mesha, king of Moab, sacrificed his only son in desperation. Seeing this, Israel turned away in disgust. The other two only had small forces, so they walked away too. It was Moab that won without fighting, though at dreadful cost to its king.
4. In approximately 700 BC, the prophet Micah named ... Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel’s future Messiah. There is zero evidence of anyone important having been born in Bethlehem. The success of this prophecy depends entirely on what the bible itself says. It was made 'true' by the story of the Nativity.
5. Fall of Babylon. Everybody wanted to have a go at Babylon. Persia succeeded because the Babylonian king was so crap that his own army wouldn't step up for him. Simply saying Babylon would fall is not a prophecy, it was an inevitability.
6. Isiah predicts Cyrus by name. If he actually did make this prophecy, it's really impressive! He has Cyrus overcoming Babylon, rebuilding Jerusalem, and refers to the fact that he's of another religion ("though you do not acknowledge me").
7. Jerusalem’s nine suburbs (1948). Not that impressive, since the Jewish builders of the new Jewish state would want to build where their ancient prophets said. I can't be bothered to find out whether these locations are the obvious places to expand into; chances are anybody could've predicted it.
8. Edom will become barren. Yeah, a lot places have become barren. The whole region began a phase of serious desertification 4,000 years ago, which was well under way by Jeremiah's 600BC. He could easily have seen that almost everywhere in his world would 'become barren'. Look at Red Sea levels since 2000BC if you want to check.
9. Messiah appears when Daniel prophesied. I'm going to suggest that part of the reason Jesus was hailed as a messiah is that he appeared when Daniel prophesied.
10. Thirty pieces of silver. Once again, we only know Judas got 30 shekels because that is what the gospels tell us. Their authors knew of the prophecy.

٭ I'm going by the most widely accepted translation. There may be others, but it's hardly likely Mesha would've inscribed being easily defeated in his permanent bio. And he wouldn't brag about killing his son unless he'd reason to believe his god did reward the sacrifice.

I've Been thinking about this alot recently, as my daugher has been learning about God and jesus at school, and wanted to start praying. Its made me think deeper into what I believe and what I would like my children to believe.

Personally I believe in evolution and science. However I see the world as God, not as a person but as a whole if that makes sense haha everything was created by it including us, God is almost a given name for the big bang theory. All animals have natural survival instricts including us however we don't obviously use ours as we did back in the day. So it makes sense to me that people feel this strong connection with God and a sense of him being with them. I believe Jesus was the son of God as we all are because we all have this deep connection from the beginning of time. Unfortunately we are all to smart now to realise it haha. Jesus was simply trying to show people what kindness, peace and love was and how beautiful the world is by useing the term God to help people understand the meaning of life. Unfortunately things didnt work out but his faith has stayed alive to this day so it is very powerful in my eyes. To have a faith is beautiful and If praying helps my daughters to feel great full for life or to help them understand something they are going through I think it's something I will encourage although I dont believe in the bible completely I do believe there is some truth but over time it's changed. Hopefully this makes sense to someone 🤣🤣

Yes

I understand why you see it this way, and I appreciate you stating your position so plainly. Thank you! I’ve spent some time thinking about how to respond thoughtfully. From a Christian perspective, though, the claim that there is no evidence at all for God is itself a philosophical conclusion rather than an established fact, and that’s where Christians would gently differ.

Christian belief is not that God is proved in the same way as a physical object that can be measured / photographed, nor that belief rests on wish-fulfilment or myth-making. Rather, it rests on a combination of historical claims, reasoned reflection on the world, and personal encounter. Central to Christianity is the historical figure of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus, whose existence, crucifixion, and early following are widely accepted by historians (and that includes ancient or contemporaneous historians, eg Josephus) — and the claim that his life, death and resurrection reveal something true about God and humanity. Christians recognise that people assess these claims differently, but they are not in the same category as fictional figures designed explicitly as stories for children.

Christians would say that evidence for God is not limited to laboratory-style proof. It includes the intelligibility and order of the universe, the existence of moral obligation (not just preference), the deep human sense of meaning, longing and justice, and the consistency of human testimony across cultures and centuries. Quite a few people here on these threads have shared personal witness! None of these force belief, and Christians don’t pretend they do — but they are reasons why belief is held thoughtfully rather than invented casually. I hope that makes sense?

Many Christians would say that our faith is not understood as something humans manufacture to comfort themselves, but as a response to God’s self-revelation — in creation, in conscience, and ultimately in Christ. That does not mean everyone will agree, or that disbelief is irrational; it simply means that belief is not the same as believing in Santa or the tooth fairy, which are knowingly constructed fictions with no claim to historical grounding or existential coherence.

I fully accept that others will look at the same world and reach different conclusions, and I’m not suggesting that belief should be imposed or that disagreement is a moral failing. My only point —possibly a long way of saying this, apologies — is that to say there is no evidence at all moves from acknowledging disagreement into asserting a certainty that many thoughtful people (both past and present) would respectfully contest.

No. Humans have always created stories about gods in an effort to explain things they couldn’t understand. For instance, the Ancient Greeks explained the way the sun appears to move across the sky every day by deciding it was pulled by a chariot driven by the sun-god. Nowadays we know better.

Over the millennia there have been thousands of gods worshipped by different groups of people. And all those people have thought that all the gods were fabricated nonsense - except, of course, for the particular one or ones they believed in!

There are still things we don’t understand, such as how life began, but that doesn’t mean that the answer must be God. And no-one has ever been able to explain to me why we should praise and worship a God who allows such terrible things to happen to good, innocent people when, since he is supposedly all-powerful, he could presumably prevent the bad things if he chose to. Talk of original sin and man's free will seems utterly ludicrous as an excuse, to me.

Oh, I've just shot down Isiah's Cyrus prophecy, actually to my own disappointment.

This prophecy is in the second book, Deutero-Isaiah, written during the Babylonian Exile (c. 586 BCE onwards).

Cyrus the Great ruled Persia from about 600BC - 530BC.

This means the book containing that prophecy was written at the same time Cyrus was marching on Babylon. He'd already pledged to free the Jews and sort Jerusalem out - one of the reasons for his success was his support for the peoples of conquered lands, whom he treated (mostly) with respect and gave them freedom to run their trades, religions, etc.

A scribe living as a second-class citizen in Babylon, excited at the prospect of freedom courtesy of Cyrus, is writing the update on Isiah's prophecies. So he includes Cyrus in whatever his source material says about release from Babylon and renewal of Jerusalem. Can't blame him, really.

He thus legitimised - even lionised - Cyrus, his contemporary, to the whole Jewish diaspora. I hope he was well rewarded.

@Lollylavender
That’s incorrect: There is evidence that Santa and The Tooth Fairy don’t exist ;
But there is no evidence that God does NOT exist.

Explain, please?

I put a tooth under my pillow. Come morning, the tooth's still there.
I pray for my ME-CFS to go away. Come morning, I'm still ill.

A perfectly nice child with very poor parents gets no Christmas presents.
Another perfectly nice child gets cancer.

Why is one thing proof, while the other isn't? Or did you have something else in mind?

No

Not finding fairies doesn't prove they don't exist; maybe they're just good at hiding or we don't know where to look.

This.

But I envy the people who do have some faith. It must feel like someone has got your back. And are the dead gone from us forever? Blown out, like a birthday cake candle? That's a despairing thought.

Jordan Peterson tries to explain how religion began in ancient times and it really made sense

No. To me it just can't possibly be so.

Yes I believe in god and find it bizarre that people would think god is cruel for decisions humans make that can bounce back badly. Science hasn't proved evolution even Stephen Hawkins thru his whole life kept chopping and changing between evolution and creation depending what his findings proved of one or the other at the time as have many other famous scientists. Sadly I don't believe in all religions because if your a Catholic to me then why do Catholics fight Catholics in wars yet claim to follow the same bible and teachings, no unity, all pomp and ceremony far removed from what Jesus claims to be. Another thing thing that bugs me I was recently at a funeral of a young man killed in a motorbike crash and the vicar said god called him and he is now in heaven. Hmmm my mind says no the guy made a bad choice speeding and sadly paid the consequence nothing to do with the spin of god calling him and again differs from the written word what happens when we die. Anyway that's only my thoughts, I duno to many make there own interpretations up as they go along so a lot doesn't make sense on the surface and even more less sense once you start digging

@LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms . Interesting debate you have with @GarlicSound

Your post about Cherry picking is of note. Because you accuse someone of doing that, cherry picking a theme, then you go on to do revisionism by omission. You decide to reverse cherry pick in a way.

To quote you here : "This first stanza is addressed specifically to slaves, ie powerless, very low-status members of Roman society.". Note, I am quoting a line for brevity, not to change what you are claiming.

So it was THE ROMANs was it ? Doing all this terrible slavery and oppression. Yup, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Without me having to quote all the parts of the NT where Jesus and the Apostles clearly show that they believe in the OT, can we agree it as a given. That they did believe in the OT. And we can add on the not one iota line from Jesus to that.

Can we turn our bibles to the book of Exodus. Not Exodus 20 where the 10 commandments appear, (the first set) Not Exodus 20:22-26, where YHWH lays out his rules for the alter he wants, with all the gold and silver, but Exodus 21.

EXODUS 21: LAWS ABOUT SLAVES.

Yup, that strange part, where Moses has just led his people from 400 years of enslavement in Egypt, and the most important new rules for them, after the 10 commandments and his gold adorned altar, is the laws on keeping slaves.

No evidence for Exodus of course, and there is a rather big plot hole here. That after 400 years of enslavement as a people with a shared religion, god is only just getting round to laying out the rules and laws for this religion. This confuses me. So what rules were the Hebrews following up til now that distinguished them as separate ?

Anyway, Exodus 20. Those great laws about owning people, owning their children, eye for an eye etc, where it's ok to kill slaves because they are your property.

Given that Slavery is a theme through all the Bible, ( Joshua is good, keep the virgin girls as slaves, kill the others), would you agree that it was not just the Romans who were slave keepers ?

And really, how hard would it have been for Jesus just to say " Slavery bad, don't do it". But nah, the NT tells slaves to work hard and be happy with their lot.

"Lot". Good word that. There is a fella in the bible called Lot. Can we discuss him at some point ?

I believe in God, and I'm a practicing Catholic. I felt a stronger faith as I progressed through various devastating losses in my
life.

I pray - not to seek any advantage and certainly not expecting any. I pray for people who have nobody to pray for them. Praying is a way to keep God in my thoughts.

I have no issue at all with dinosaurs or evolution. Both are extremely well evidenced. Luckily, my church is not one of those organized religions that thinks the universe is 3000 years old, or whatever.

And certainly the idea of 'punishment' of homosexuals would be a huge NO.

@LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms

Quoting something you posted above:

"And historically on top of all that ‘natural’ suffering, Christians suffered more than those around them, through state organised persecutions and through petty jealousies, hatred and sheer brutality of the people they lived among. Many Christians have experienced this through the two millennia of the church’s existence and increasingly huge numbers suffer today."

I gotta admit, that claim made my eyes pop a little.

Any examples ?

Are you including the religious wars in this claim ? Because I don't think they count really. Protestants burning Catholics, then Catholics burning protestants does not really count as persecution against Christians does it ?

This bit " Christians suffered more ".

Yeah, those pesky Africans and Native Americans, among many many others, daring to fight back against Bible wielding "liberators". Is that what you mean ?

Eph 2:8 for by grace you are saved, through faith, and this [is] not of yourselves--[it is] the gift of God,

Eph 2:9 not of works, that no one may boast;

Eph 2:10 for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus on good works, which God prepared before, that we may walk in them.

All LSV

Good catch that @ByLovingTraybake

I can't dispute your point at all. Or can I ? What else does the NT say ?

How about this-

Mat 6:19 -21 "Do not treasure up to yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust disfigure, and where thieves break through and steal, but treasure up to yourselves treasures in Heaven, where neither moth nor rust disfigure, and where thieves do not break through nor steal, for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (LSV)

And there is this bit

Col 3:24 "having known that you will receive the repayment of the inheritance from the LORD--for you serve the LORD Christ;: (LSV)

Revelation gets in on it too

. Rev 22:12 Behold, I come quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to each as his work will be;" (LSV)

2 Corinthians-

2Co 5:10 "for it is necessary for all of us to have appeared before the judgment seat of the Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil; "(LSV)

Luk 6:23 "rejoice in that day, and leap, for behold, your reward [is] great in Heaven, for according to these things were their fathers doing to the prophets." (LSV)

Mat 10:42 "and whoever may give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, truly I say to you, he may not lose his reward."" (LSV)

And certainly not last but it's cold here and my CTRL C CTRL V fingers are a bit stiff, so this will have to do for now-

Mat 16:27"* For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father, with His messengers, and then He will reward each according to his work*." (LSV)

So yes, while you say there is no brownie point system in place, and you found a great verse that backs you up, it appears the Bible as a whole says there is such a system in place.

That last verse I quoted. That's Jesus himself saying it "He will reward each according to his work."

Would you agree, that while you don't think there is a brownie points thing going on, that other people who read the Bible might think there is? Especially given that Jesus himself said that is how the system operates.

This whole concept of being rewarded for good works is pretty much the major theme of the whole thing. Earn brownie points on earth, get into Gods exclusive country club.

We wont mention what happens to the people who don't get into the country club. We can do the wailing and gnashing of teeth stuff later.

I think everyone has enough common sense to know that nothing negative happens in life or after death if you are a non believer - it’s the same for everyone.

Eh? Is this a mistype, or did you forget to include a crucial part?
I'm not sure anyone's had a life with nothing negative!

Do you mean in terms of negative things happening to non believers BECAUSE they are non believers ? Compared to believers of course.

Then yes.

This might be a good point to talk about what the Bible says happens to non believers after death. The wailing and gnashing of teeth stuff.

:-)