The Church of Scotland is a spiritual desert

[searchingsearching]

NC for this.

I started attending my local CoS after going through a bit of a difficult time. I enjoyed being able to disconnect from the business of my life, and taking time to pray felt and still feels important but, almost two years down the line, I don’t feel any closer to God or even have an inkling as to why I should want to.

The sermons are long winded and go off in all sorts of tangents without ever getting to the point. Not helped by the minister who seems to try to cram in as many jokes and silly songs as is possible. Maybe it’s just this particular church but there’s just such a lack of depth and substance. Everything is so surface level and childish but the rest of the congregation seem quite happy with it. To me, church should feel sacred and be meaningful.

We’ve been encouraged to attend something called the alpha course so I had a look online and watched the first three installments on YouTube and can safely say I have no interest in it. It was a very sleek but cringy production that felt very Americanised with again, very little substance.

Does anyone else feel like this? Or is it just me? Perhaps a different denomination would suit me better or maybe it’s not Christianity I’m looking for at all.

@searchingsearching I doubt if you will find any deep intellectual or academic teaching in a Sunday sermon - whatever the 'flavour' of church. Most churches merely tickle the ears of those yet unsaved and/or superficially touch on the message - enough, maybe, to inspire further study. My other observation is that all the academic study in the world, is unlikely to lead anyone to faith in Christ Jesus. Only once saved by coming to faith in Him, is when the real and meaningful learning and understanding begins.

As @CraftyGin alluded to: you will never find a perfect church because all churches are run by and are full of imperfect human beings. All we can do is hope to find a 'best fit'. I wish you well in your search.

I enjoyed being able to disconnect from the business of my life,

If this is what you seek, then why not look at Buddhism? Or the Quakers (Society of Friends) if you are a certain believer in the Christian concept of god. Both are less dependent on the human failings of a minister with their personal ego trips.

All the Christian churches are lumbered with the accretions of hundreds of years of rules and regulations. It sounds as though you need to look at something more essence focussed.

Others Scottish option is the Wee Free's. or the Free Church of Scotland. More common up north but there are some in other areas and definitely in Edinburgh/Glasgow.

I’m not looking for a perfect church @Thegreatestoftheseislove but one which resonates. I agree that faith isn’t an academic or intellectual exercise but I don’t believe a layperson like me can develop a relationship with Christ and follow his teachings without an understanding of the Bible.

Except that's not what @OP is saying, read the thread properly and stop impersonating OP on their own thread. How crass!

Sunday services tend to be quite light because they are open, in theory welcoming, to people of all levels of understanding and experience. It needs to be appropriate for the first timer as well as the regular.
Going deeper, questioning, tends to be done in small groups- lent groups or home groups.

My last attempt was after attending church the Sunday following 9:11. They didn't even MENTION what had happened.

If you want an understanding of the Bible I’d try an evangelical church or get a copy of Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem.

but also because of what you said up thread about previously being an atheist, have you come across Alain de Botton, his ideas about ‘Atheism 2.0’ and the School of Life? (Lots of videos on YouTube). Frankly I found much more spiritual and emotional nourishment through psychotherapy than I ever did in 25 years of being brought up with an extremely thorough knowledge of the Bible and once calling myself an adult baptised born again Christian.

All the best with your quest!

Also, sometimes we are missing what is there because we aren’t really hearing or understanding. I used to despise liturgy. I couldn’t understand what church services were for, they did nothing for me- didn’t challenge, further my understanding- nothing. Certainly didn't engage me emotionally.

It’s only since being a regular at my local, becoming part of the church family with all the irritation and grace that sparks, and living through the cycles of the liturgy that I’ve realised how much is going on. Working through the bible, using sections of scripture as prayers, blessings and responses, hearing several different people preach on the same passage in subsequent years- that’s deepened my understanding and connection with God.

Though I’m a bit of a fan of multiple sources of information and experience. I don’t think there is a right or wrong way to do church and think we benefit from a range of approaches.

Aye, that's why I said we can only hope for a 'best fit' - as you said, 'one that resonates'.

I disagree that a 'lay person' cannot come to faith. I am living proof that they can. Praise God!

It is only after coming to faith that I understood that full and complete understanding of Scripture only comes with the help of the Holy Spirit. Without Faith in Christ Jesus and reading scripture in a prayerful way, deep understanding of the many messages of the Bible can only ever be superficial. Hence, you get loads of folk who can quote chapter and verse from an academic perspective, but they have no faith. It's a what comes first situation and I totally understand that at the moment it is all coming from your human intellect. That's fine, you are on a journey, and as I said, I wish you well in your search and your travels.

@Mischance you may have a point. Not necessarily about Buddhism, but the essence part. I find I’m drawn to nature and more attuned to the seasons, etc as I get older and feel the need to lean into that. I wonder if it’s our soulless, materialistic society that’s left me feeling so unsettled and searching for ‘meaning’ and not specifically a need for God.

If you are not looking for Christ Jesus, if you are do not have a 'specific need for God' you won't find Him. 🙂

I will now bow out as I've done the circular debates far too often on this board. 💐

Different ministers hold different services. I have been to an evangelical church which held really interesting and challenging services because the Minister was excellent.

There is also a vibrant Christian spirituality ‘movement’ and you may find that meets your needs, reflective prayer, quiet days, the epiphany group ( I think based on Ignatius Loyola’s work) , Christian meditation. I used to live in Edinburgh and there is loads there. I can give you some links to follow up if you are in Edinburgh.

I get that but sermons in my church wouldn’t be appropriate for a first timer, imo. Generally, a couple of Bible versus are read out by an elder and then the sermon, centered around those versus, follows. However they’re often obscure, no context is ever provided and no explanation given as to their meaning or significance.

Honestly, it might be an issue with this particular minister as he doesn’t actually seem to understand what he’s saying and just talks in circles!

I agree with trying lots of churches even if you think they won't suit you. Usually the people in the church and their relationships with God and each other are much more important than the type of songs and sermons, and you can't tell that from looking online.
I think that for developing a new belief in God that relationships with other Christians are really important, both in smaller group settings and also one on one with friends. So I would look for a friendly church with plenty of things going on outwith the main Sunday service. Small groups for Bible reading, discussion and prayer are very important, but so are things like 'pub style' quizzes on weekday/Saturday nights, having lunch together sometimes after the Sunday service, going on trips or picnics together, ... You get the drift. Find a church with stuff like this, go along to Bible groups and also social stuff, and engage. Make friends and meet them socially. Learn from them.

Paganism or Wiccan are based on nature.

But back to Christianity, a church with home groups ( popular in evangelical churches) will give you a chance to study the Bible with a group).

Just about every belief system is based on nature. The people who wrote the Book of Genesis didn't know where the sun went at night, and were desperate to come up with a plausible explanation. So they came up with God, and then an elaborate system of appeasing him so the sun would keep coming up again in the morning.

I don’t find evangelical churches particularly stimulating intellectually, to be honest. Tends to be a bit superficial and literal- but I may have been unlucky.

Alpha used to be good for outlining the fundamentals- like the creeds- then introducing the Holy Spirit. Almost like the point of the course was to reintroduce the Spirit to mainstream congregations that had politely done away with anything mystical in church. It always amazes me that the church survived while the supernatural was so carefully pruned away, but of course it barely has.

See I just don’t buy this sort of evangelical pontificating. I recently listened to a talk by an orthodox priest who explained that the Bible is grounded in 2000 years of theology and laid down by the apostles, and those who believe in ‘sola scriptura’ don’t fully understand Christ’s teachings because so much of the historical and theological context has been stripped away. I think that’s why certain denominations can be very literal in their interpretations.

So, while I’m happy you’ve found meaning in what I’m guessing is a sort of born again evangelical form of Christianity, it wouldn’t be right for me.

Sadly, OP, we live in a day where many churches are no longer teaching the Bible, which is why what youve sat under you have rightly found to be empty.
The Bible is the Living Word of God and if it is received by the listener/reader as God intended, it will be an ever-satisfying wellspring to your soul.

I recommend you read it.
Read the verses that are part of 'The Romans Road': https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html
which is the Gospel simplified - I.e. how a minister might explain the Gospel to an unbeliever/to someone who has not been born again.
Read the Gospel of John, and you can read Matthew Henry's commentary online alongside it for explanations of the text.

You will very likely receive an absolute load of nonsense on this thread. Test everything against the Bible.

Re. churches: yes, there's no perfect church. But the true church is those who have been forgiven by God and washed clean due to Christ's atoning work on Calvary’s Cross: it is not the building.
And God has a perfect will for His people and He wills for people to meet together to worship (the primary part of worship is preaching of the Word), so if a believer is praying for guidance and truly seeking to worship God and follow His will, then they will attend an "imperfect" church in the perfect will of God.

Seek out a church that is faithful to the Bible and does not kowtow to the people who just want a nice wee message to make them feel better/that they are happy to hear, rather than a message that is hard to hear because it is Truth. If you really want to hear from God, He might have things to say to us that are not easy to hear or that require a change in us - God frequently had "hard" messages for His people - think of Samuel as a child in the temple, when God spoke to him for the first time, and told him to deliver an extremely difficult message to Eli.

God is incredibly gracious and merciful, I'm reminded of this constantly - but, because God is just, sin must always be punished: either by the sinner in hell, or by the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, on the Cross. My sins have all been paid for by Christ - I could do nothing to have them removed/forgiven myself: it is all Christ. His perfect life meant He was a sufficient substitute. Hallelujah, what a Saviour! 'For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved', Romans 10:13

If you are not looking for Christ Jesus, if you are do not have a 'specific need for God' you won't find Him.

I do not think this is what the OP is looking for. She seems to be looking for a way of life that is not solely material-based and that has an element of wonder. Like many, she finds that in nature, but not in formal religion.

I am guessing that she does not have a "specific need for god" - which is fine. Many people don't.

That does not mean that they do not have a need to stand aside from the material world some of the time and feed their better selves. Quakers are good at that.

@LadeOde

Ignatian spiritual practices:

"Named after Ignatius of Loyola, Ignatian Spirituality is a grounded Christian spirituality which seeks to find God in all things, all times and all places.
It is to be found principally in the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius, and as well in his writings, letters, and Constitutions of the Society of Jesus"

Ignatian spirituality is very much centred on Jesus.

Firstly, that is your rather reductionist opinion about what the book of genesis is about. No even half serious scholar would compare it to an Aesop fable in the way you have.

Secondly, the fact that you are comparing genuine nature based religions to Christianity/ Judaism, as if they are somehow the same, tells me you know nothing about any of these religions.

I was a hardcore Christian for 25 years. I know a lot more than you think I do.

Are you open to other forms of spirituality? As Nichiren Buddhism might be a good fit, it's based on the very beautiful and profound Lotus Sutra, but the practice, chanting is very straight-forward and practical and has helped many people overcome difficult times and transform.
I've been to meetings, which are usually in people's homes, it's lay-based.
anyway since you're in Scotland here's a link if you are interested
sgi-uk.org/