saw a woman in a burkha the other day

[onlygirlinthehouse]

can someone please explain to me how it can be ok, in 2008, for a woman to be walking down the street in an ordinary northern town in a full burkha. I personally find the wearing of burkha quite shocking but to see it in my home town was even more so.

I have no problem with the wearing of headscarves, it doesnt interfere with normal everyday social interactions, but we are now seeing more and more full face veils and as I have said, even burkhas, surely this is cutting yourself off from normal society.

Is this progress? Is this freedom of speech and expression? Someone please justify this for me.

Me too, but two wrongs don't make a right. I hate to see western youth pissed on a friday and saturday night vomitting in the gutter, but understand that is not anything to do with muslims. Likewise burkas have sod all to do with whether a girl in the west wears a short skirt.

Besides noone wore a crop top in the name of God.

why does it matter that one wears something in the name of god?
i do things in is name, i wear things in his name

not sure what that has got to do with the price of eggs actually

Two, one because the Prophet Mohammed never asked any woman to cover their face and it is being done in his name to the detriment of those that wear the burka and the cohesion of muslims in a Western society.

Not sure why I wrote two???

PosieParker on Thu 08-May-08 14:26:35
What I find annoying is a whole family in the hot sunshine, Dad in shorts, kids in summer attire and Mother in full burkha with gloves....... I have to stop myself from asking her why or talking loudly speaking about oppression

Do you not think that this is rude?

I don't do it, but it's difficult not to, i don't think thinking about something is rude.

ok , thinking is not rude....i thought the "i have to stop myself" part applied only to asking her why

perhaps i should return to the debate when i am able to read and understand the posts as i have slept a bit

i have a question about this that is slighty off topic, in a park recently were 2 little girls (aged about 3&4) both fully covered apart from their faces, their mum was totally covered inc face.
now i understand that the mum has made the choice to dress like this, but why cover the kids in this way?
i did actually think it unfair on the children, they were attracting lots of stares from other kids and having trouble playing because they couldnt climb the slide ect. just wondering if someone who knows could explain this?

because the Prophet Mohammed never asked any woman to cover their face and it is being done in his name to the detriment of those that wear the burka and the cohesion of muslims in a Western society

as i understand it - what is word is open to interpretation.

to the detriment - erm..... matter of opnion... but i wouldnt assume that a women is suffering.

Integration into society is secondary to ones faith and the moslim women i know say that it gives them freedom form many forms of pressure in western society

posie maybe you should go up to the woman and enquire politely why she chooses to dress like that...if she says her husband is making her, hold him in a headlock untill she can run away..or something.

Isn't life difficult enough without getting so stressed out by other peoples dress choices.
Having said that, one of my friends decided to take his shirt off at lunchtime yesterday, I was appalled, shocked ,dismayed, and in dire need of smelling salts he has man boobs ick almost put me off my lunch doncha know

nancy I have no idea why a child would be covered thus, unless they were on their way to pray....

i did wonder if that could be the case, but they, like us were in the park nearly all day so i dont think so.

In the Handmaid's Tale (or handmaiden's???) Margaret Atwood raises the v interesting issue of 'freedom from' versus 'freedom to' i.e. the women in her story were suppose to be grateful that they were used as walking wombs and oppressed by the patriarchal society etc, etc because it gave them 'freedom from' sexual harrassment and pornography etc, etc.

This idea that you wear a burkha to give you 'freedom from' male sexual oppression i find utterly chilling and bizarre. As many other posters have pointed out, why aren't the men the one in blinkers???

Nancy75, I've also seen little girls with veils on and I just don't understand it at all. They are not sexual creatures, why should the sight of their uncovered heads drive men wild? And if it does, isn't it the men who have a real problem and isn't it the men who should be contained, either by clothes or a prison wall??

and fuzzy, i do get stressed by people's clothing 'choices' when I witness a young mother on a beach when it is 40 DEGREES, struggling along the sand, carrying a baby, while chasing a toddler (in swimming trunks) while dressed in a long black robe and headscarf while husband gently promenades along in his shorts. WTF ????

Spero, great post!

I find this pity, incredibly insulting and highly patronising.

I gave a work colleague an abaya, she is utterly in love with it, she is not a muslim, I have not converted her/oppressed her nor do I have any intention of doing so. She's a red head and burns like anything under the sun, she asked me where I got my abaya from, so the next time I was in Dubai I got her one as a gift complete with matching scarf (they come as a set so couldn't not get the scarf), she utterly loves it, she wears it on the beach in Spain...wonder if the other english tourists think she's oppressed, her husband prolly walks around in shorts or speedos or whatever on the beach whilst she wonders around in the all encompasing billowing abaya, and huge hat to prevent from burning. She uses the scarf as an accessory for nights out.

Or is it just muslim women who should foriclby made to remove their clothes, because poor little us, we're too stupid to recognise we're being opressed by our menfolk!
Btw, ex used to demand I remove my headscarf... which I found oppressive and refused.
Out of three sisters I am the only one who wears a hijab, my sister feels everyone glares at her so she is too scared to wear what she would dearly love to. My youngest sister is miss fashionista and currently conductig a very intense love affair with all things estee lauder.... and my brother and parents could give a damn what we do so long as it's within the law and we're happy.

And men are supposed to cover, and grow a beard and wear trousers above their ankles, and a lot of muslim men do!

A while ago I was looking for swimwear, which would cover me and look good (not an easy search), I stumbled upon a forum, where the original poster gave a brief outline of what she wanted, later on in the thread, she posted up a link to a site catering for islamic swimwear and ended with 'I'd buy it if it didn't have the hood part', fair enough.
Cue all hell let loose as the other women went into a tail spin about those evil female oppressing mozlems.... and the poster wasn't even muslim just very body conscious!!!!

If I were your friend, I wouldn't be able to resist ordering a round of tequila shooters while I was wearing my abaya.

I've often thought that if I were Princess Diana or Britney Spears or someone whose life is made a misery by paparazzi, I'd wear an abaya just for the freedom.

As the burka is worn from the age of maturity it is further confirmation that Islamic women and men do not trust the Islamic man to be anything less than a sexual predator. To put the responsibility of this onto women and children is disgusting. You're right I do pity any person that is so deluded that forcably or willingly wears the handcuffs of oppression whether they are aware of it or not.

I wear what I wear because I want to, because it makes me comfortable.

I pity the women who spend their time living up to the impossible ideals set by the media, of the perfect body.

If the burkha is a shackle because women choose (and only if it's their own personal choice) who sees what and when.
Then I'm rather glad I'm not the emancipated woman who spends her time and money trying to live up to the image of the perfect body portrayed by the media. Although of course women who spend time and money on, diets, and plastic surgery, and make up, and miracle potions, and magic pants only ever do it for themselves...because they're so very liberated as no women but those doing the exact same thing could ever be.

9dragons, I think friend is a little past the stage in her life where she'd do tequila slammers...but it would be amusing if she walked into a bar in the full get up....or she'd be arrested for being a terorrist or something I guess

Fuzzywuzzy, that's comparing you, a moderate from what I gather and not a burka wearer, to an extreme. What about the woman who doesn't reveal a lot of flesh, diet or foolishly try and live up to a media image?
It's all very well to say what extreme we wouldn't like to be and an easy arguement, by the way I do not think the burka prevents dieting.
Again you do not wear a burka and I assume this is for a reason.

Posie, I'm an accountant, in my daily professional life I wouldn't stand a chance if I walked around in a burkha.
I prolly wouldn't stand a chance in my headscarf either given the current political climate. But I've lead a charmed life (thank god), and most people can see beyond my headwear and heck I'm damn good at what I do.

I agree in the UK, it is impossible to lead a professional life in a burkha.
But personally, in ones own time, I really do think women and men should be allowed to wear whatever they want, without people getting offended and angry, and ranty about the invasion on british culture.

I also agree that young children shouldn't be made to wear the headscarves at all, and that the women who do wear the hijab/niqab/burkha, should not be compelled to do it by anyone.
On the other hand my dd's sometimes insist on wearing their headscarves when we go out, because they want to be like me...goodness knows what the public at large must think of me, two little girls who would be incredibly beautiful, if only their mad mother did not dress them in headscarves and pink nightdresses...with crocs (anyone know how to get two very headstrong girls to wear normal clothes, they have respectable clothes they do)

I have no problem with headscarves and think they can look quite beautiful, although in Easton Bristol you see quite an array of mixed colours and fabrics..... some extraordinary and some really vile. Religion cannot prevent poor taste!!
For me I have no religion and little real understanding why any God or higher power if one existed would wish to segregate people by insisting that they dress differently, I see this as another part of man's need to belong rather than anything a benevolent being would ask of man, but I imagine that is another debate.

Fuzzy, I agree that 'pity' can be a dangerous word as it does imply some form of lack of respect... that's why i hope I have been careful to say I am 'sad' when I see little girls (and grown women) wearing clothes which clearly impede their ability to run around, enjoy the sea and the sand etc, etc.

I feel equally sad when I see six year olds traipsing around in high heels shoes! I don't know which is worse, that some one is manufacturing these things or that some parents are buying them.

But I find it quite interesting that supporters of veiling, in whatever forms, do seem so reluctant to admit that wearing one can often be an impediment to a woman enjoying a full and varied life; driving a car for example.

Jason Burke in his book Al Quaeda made an interesting point about the Taliban in Afghanistan; he said they insisted on women covering absolutely as this was a throwback to tribal times when women absolutely had to be protected from abduction etc.

But what place does this have in the modern world? Especially when imposed upon small children.