Rules which must be followed by orthodox Jews.

[SchlemielSchlimazel]

I am slightly mystified by various aspects of orthodox Judaism, particularly rules that people are obliged to follow at different times.

Please can anyone who has relevant knowledge explain to me the purpose of having myriad arcane rules and then finding workarounds to circumvent them?

For example being forbidden to carry items in public on the Sabbath and then stringing a wire around the area in order to make it no longer public.

No tearing toilet paper, but you can do it in advance.

Not being allowed to turn lights on and off, so having a special cover which essentially allows you to turn the lights on and off (I think this is called a kosher lamp or kosher switch).

Do Jewish people unquestioningly accept these rules as being deeply respectful and meaningful, or do they privately think they are a bit crazy?

There have been many many threads on MN questioning Islam and its practices. Feel free to search to find them.

You don’t have to always pit Islam and Judaism against each other. Quite sad that’s your default thinking…

When I was undergoing chemotherapy, there was a lovely Orthodox lady also having treatment at the same time. She was there with her daughter (who was married/mid 20s). Sometimes, when I go to Westfield, I often see groups of orthodox Jewish women without their husbands. They are out and about, it's just you've probably never noticed them - by dint of being with their husbands, they can be more noticeable.

Sabbath is lovely, it's about switching off from the world and spending time with friends and family. Even for a family like mine where we're not orthodox or even massively religious, Friday night supper/not going out is a huge thing.

In London, but not in an area with a Jewish population. That was obviously a misapprehension of mine.

Ultimately it's religion and religion is based on faith and ritual.

I’m not Jewish so I don’t pretend to speak for Jewish people but I do have a strong faith and I find that a lot of people really struggle to understand it as a concept. We live in a secular society (which I fully agree with, I absolutely believe that religion should not have a place in governance) and we are free to have any religion or none. But I do find those of no religion struggle to understand those who do have one, while those of a different religion don’t agree with the beliefs but they respect the concept.

Why do we do certain things? Because it’s our belief and it might not make logical sense but it just IS, and it’s important to us.

you forgot about the magic stone! Stone of Scone - Wikipedia

people were much more inclined to follow unscientific superstition at that point in history.

But it’s all unscientific, all of it, not just the rituals and the rules, but all of it. It’s not like religion all stacks up nicely in evidence based science but these rules stand out as being a bit whacky. It’s faith, if you don’t believe it’s all nonsense and if you do believe, then nothing is more important. These rules you’ve mentioned feel extreme in a modern context, but every part of every religion is unscientific superstition, unless you have faith.

Thank you - that is actually a rather enlightening way to look at it.

I'm in London too, also seemingly in an area not with a Jewish population, except there is.

Many thanks to everyone who's contributed, especially those Jewish people who have answered some of my questions.

Oh, and there's another one. Not being allowed to write "God" in full.

It’s not uncommon, in Islam beings are not depicted which is why mosques are decorated with beautiful script. Can you genuinely not understand that other people have things which they find important and act in ways which respect and reflect that importance to them? They’re not doing you any harm so why the rather sneery tone?

@SchlemielSchlimazel perhaps accept and respect some people are ok with the terms of the religion they belong too. I appreciate you are asking sensible questions but for some religious people it works for them.

Those things are based on various actual reasons though. Not because an invisible ‘god’ that tells them they can’t.

OP you do know what Schlemeil means don't you?

It means fool in Yiddish.

Thank you. This has been a helpful explanation for me.

I have wondered the same as the OP - that an eruv feels (to me, a non Jew) like crossing your fingers. If it’s an important rule that you shouldn’t push a pram on the sabbath then you should follow it and if it doesn’t really matter then don’t follow it.

Your explanation does make things clearer.

I grew up in a United Reform church and I remember gambling wasn’t allowed in the church hall - so no raffles but you were allowed to do lucky dip because there was a prize every time. This is also a ‘workaround’.

I guess for those of us who don't feel obliged or obligated to follow such rules, then it is easier to judge them as hypocritical or silly. For orthodox Jews or Muslims or whatever, who feel their life demands such structures to keep peop!e and things together, then they, by nature of being human, will creatively adjust structures to make it workable. My deeper concern is with groups who refuse blood transfusions, for example, which can make the difference between life and death. Especially if choosing on behalf of a child. Wigs, headscarves, milk and meat, fridge lights or loans all seem pretty benign (if interesting) to me.

OP needs to visit Brent Cross on a Friday morning.

Not that anyone asked, but I will explain what Shabbos (Friday night to Sunday night, 25 hours), looks like for me

My phone is put down, on loud as I personally want someone to be able to contact me in an emergency. Candles are lit 18 minutes or so before sundown. I say a specific prayer, and then a pray of thanks and gratitude, and say some good thoughts and wishes about people I know and love, or someone in my thoughts.

I then spend some time with DC, put them to bed not long after and then enjoy my evening - Usually a hot bubble bath and a good book. Absolutely no house work allowed unless it's essential

Saturday, all day, I spend my focus and time on my DC. I use my phone to attend Shol sometimes, unless DC1 (disabled) is with a carer. Otherwise, I might go in person with DC2.

I go swimming in the afternoon with my children, play with them, nap if I can and H is watching them. Then that's it - Evening rolls around and Shabbos is over.

I follow the practice of not making any purchases on Shabbos, usually. But have broken this occasionally for DC, for example to enable one of them buy a drink they see at a cafe after swimming

Some of these things aren't strictly allowed if I was Orthodox. But I take a practical and realistic approach to my own practice that enables me to care for my children in a way that makes sense and works. Likewise, some Jews don't acknowledge Shabbos at all. But they might have a stricter Kosher home than me - My only Kosher following is no pork. And I don't mix dairy and meat for 6 hours. My children do - again, disability means these things can't be explained to them and I'd rather they are happy with as little upset as possible in their lives

My husband is not Jewish. My Jewishness comes from my Grandmother's mum. I am a Jew through my mother's line but she is a Christian - although technically a Jew too. I started practicing my Jewish faith in my mid 20s

Shamefully, I am a more present parent on Shabbos. Clearly I must be using my phone too much! It's a learning curve for sure

I love my identify and my faith. I never felt home until I practiced my faith. There's a lot of structure and joy.

I didn’t know it wasn’t for modesty. Thank you for your response. I think often people - myself included - think of things like covering hair or whatever, as being reliant on other people’s opinion/observation. By that I mean that if other people find something to be modest or if by doing something you are protecting yourself from other people’s gaze, then that is what matters…that is ‘the point’. But actually, you can do things only for you, for your spirituality, commitments, or personal reason. To remind yourself. Like how someone might get a tattoo in a private place - they’ll surely get comments such as “but no one can see it”, but the tattoo was for them, not for anyone else.

Many of these are ancient customs which go back millennia. If observation of these customs gives a sense of spiritual comfort, belonging and closeness to God, then that's fine. They're not harming anyone. I used to live in Golders Green, which has a large Jewish community. Their customs and practices never bothered me nor affected my life at all. My neighbours were friendly, courteous and considerate and would often give me food gifts at special times.
I was raised RC. I was taught to bow my head every time I said the word Jesus. Customs evolve, many remain.
As long as they're not harming anyone - live and let live.

I'm guessing your general view of religion is deeply influenced by/based on Christianity, even if you don't consider yourself to be Christian.

In Christianity, everything is very much about doing your best, loving your neighbour, forgiveness, and as such it's seen as more important to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

In Judaism there is much more emphasis on following the letter of the law. Finding modern work-arounds (eg lights on timers) isn't seen as dodging the law at all, it's seen as following it. In older times it was fairly normal to employ a non-Jew to come and do some of those jobs on the sabbath. It's not weird or wrong, it's just different!

Or maybe they are better at blending in, wigs and all, than you think? There is more than one way to dress as an Orthodox Jewish woman.

There were Orthodox Jewish women at my pilates group. They most certainly go out on their own and socialise!

@Devonshiregal yes that is a very good comparison

Lots of things are also customs and then taken up because of tradition - For example, waiting until a boy is age 3 before the first hair cut. It is then a custom to donate the weight of that hair in £££ to charity

I do accept that, of course. It doesn't stop me being curious though!