Atheists and proof cont….

[Kdtym10]

A carry on from the previous thread

[HannibalHeyes]

Pointless...

[Kdtym10]

@HannibalHeyes

Pointless...

why - because people don’t agree with you? If it’s so pointless why bother coming onto another thread.

[Lalupalina]

Op, the previous thread has received a lot of great examples of the sort of proof that atheists would like to see in order to change their mind on the existence of any gods.

[Kdtym10]

@Lalupalina

Op, the previous thread has received a lot of great examples of the sort of proof that atheists would like to see in order to change their mind on the existence of any gods.

So in summary atheists say we want scientific quantifiable and measurable data there is a God. They are told that this method of viewing the world is not applicable to the spiritual world for many different reasons. Atheists state- we are open minded as” long as you can prove it on our terms because our way is the only way of looking at the world (although don’t forget how open minded we are).

People give atheists lots of examples of why scientific methodology is not applicable to anything spiritual. Cue several atheists getting very angry start throwing round ad hominem arguments, trotting out the same mantras. Saying nothing is clear, being asked to state what they don’t find clear so it can be explained, never getting further than “Uh all believers are stupid, they can’t provide scientific evidence but I’m not going to ask specific questions I just wavy a generalised statement -but don’t forget I’m open minded” or my favorite /“I told you to pick a point to explain -you didn’t so your god hates you” at that point I thought I was back in kindergarten with some child sticking out their tongue.

People of faith remind them a scientific world view is like testing hearing with an eye test. Certain atheists “but we want scientific data -you’re:stupid”

I think that’s a summary of how it went.

[MonsteraMama]

What about those of us who don't want or need proof? I just don't believe in God or Gods. Short of Christ himself knocking on my door to introduce himself I doubt that will ever change. Why does that anger you so much?

[Kdtym10]

@MonsteraMama

What about those of us who don't want or need proof? I just don't believe in God or Gods. Short of Christ himself knocking on my door to introduce himself I doubt that will ever change. Why does that anger you so much?

It doesn’t anger me at all, I’m not sure why you think it does.

But thanks for answering the question which is more than many have.

[Kdtym10]

I can’t recall any I’ve made before, perhaps you could point them out?

[Iusedtobeapenguin]

Interesting thread - I haven't read the previous one. As a lifelong atheist I can't say I've ever been interested in looking for proof of a god. I may just as well look for proof of fairies at the bottom of the garden. But thinking about it now, I think for any proof to be absolute it would have to be on a grand scale - in the realms of a message broadcast across the skies for millions to see/hear. After all, if a god is that powerful, they would presumably have the power to do that? Apologies that I don't seem to be able to comment on this subject without sounding sarcastic - it's not intentional.

[AllProperTeaIsTheft]

I think maybe the problem is that you don't seem to understand what the word 'proof' means.

[fedupandstuck]

Many many people answered the original question about proof on the previous thread, with answers similar to @Iusedtobeapenguin and @MonsteraMama 's answers.

[Kdtym10]

@AllProperTeaIsTheft

I think maybe the problem is that you don't seem to understand what the word 'proof' means.

nouN

1. evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.
2. "you will be asked to give proof of your identity

yep- pretty much ties into my understanding.

Maybe you’re confusing the term with scientific methodology?

[Kdtym10]

So you disagree with my summary? If you don’t like the threads why get involved.

I don’t like zealots of any persuasion. I think my posts clearly show that when anyone gets extreme on either side.

[Kdtym10]

@fedupandstuck

Many many people answered the original question about proof on the previous thread, with answers similar to @Iusedtobeapenguin and @MonsteraMama 's answers.

Yes they did, and I think I thanked many who answered the question. My issue is certain other posters who descended into personal attacks

[PralinaChocs]

@Kdtym10

nouN

1. evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.
2. "you will be asked to give proof of your identity

yep- pretty much ties into my understanding.

Maybe you’re confusing the term with scientific methodology?

Interesting. I didn't read the previous thread. But the definitions here are subjective, in this context, aren't they? What is required to establish the truth of whether there is or isn't a God is clearly different for different people. For some people it would be necessary to have scientific empirical standards of 'proof'. For others, that evidently isn't necessary.

[ladyvimes]

Surely if you follow a religion you don’t need proof so why does the fact that I’m an atheist mean I need proof. I don’t. I’m quite content with my beliefs!

[PralinaChocs]

Fwiw, I don't have a set idea of what would be necessary or sufficient to prove whether there is or isn't a god.

If there is a God, my view is that humans are unlikely to have the capacity to identify or understand the nature of it. But within my human understanding, my conclusion from the total of my life experiences is that there probably isn't one. Or if there is one, i suspect I'm not really a fan of his/her/their methods or beliefs or values.

[BringMeSunshineAllDayLong]

Religion is just a bit silly for me. I get the cultural stuff and how people enjoy the rituals etc. but to really believe it just seems a bit silly.
I am very happily content with my choice. I'm sure lots of religious people think I am silly to not believe. That's fine by me.

[Kdtym10]

on several other threads I’ve been critical of extreme religious views too. No one has shown extreme religious views on these threads to my knowledge

[Kdtym10]

@BringMeSunshineAllDayLong

Religion is just a bit silly for me. I get the cultural stuff and how people enjoy the rituals etc. but to really believe it just seems a bit silly.
I am very happily content with my choice. I'm sure lots of religious people think I am silly to not believe. That's fine by me.

Why is it”silly”

[Kdtym10]

@ladyvimes

Surely if you follow a religion you don’t need proof so why does the fact that I’m an atheist mean I need proof. I don’t. I’m quite content with my beliefs!

The original thread came about because of comments on another thread where several atheists said they would be happy to believe in God if there was evidence.

[TheHorneSection]

@ladyvimes

Surely if you follow a religion you don’t need proof so why does the fact that I’m an atheist mean I need proof. I don’t. I’m quite content with my beliefs!

This is what stood out to me from the other thread.

The OP is allowed to say that she doesn’t need proof because she believes, and her belief constitutes her proof.

However, an atheist ISN’T allowed to say they don’t need proof because they don’t believe, and their disbelief constitutes their proof.

Rather baffling.

[Kdtym10]

@PralinaChocs

Interesting. I didn't read the previous thread. But the definitions here are subjective, in this context, aren't they? What is required to establish the truth of whether there is or isn't a God is clearly different for different people. For some people it would be necessary to have scientific empirical standards of 'proof'. For others, that evidently isn't necessary.

Well yes, I guess that’s the position. The problem arises in that most spiritual people would argue scientific methodology is really only suited to the physical rather than spiritual realm so their requirement of “scientific evidence” if never likely to be met.