Atheists and proof cont….

[Kdtym10]

A carry on from the previous thread

I’m not sure that “water is wet” is so much a scientific point as a linguistic one. The definition of wetness is to be saturated with water )or other liquid) - even then it’s predicated on water being in its liquid form, so no water isn’t always wet.

Objects fall to the ground due to gravity - but what if they’re caught? They have not fallen to the ground.

When you’re having to resort to these kind of euphemistic arguments you’re not doing yourself any kind of favours.

Objects fall because of gravity. The ground part of the sentence is entirely unnecessary; objects fall onto the ground, or a hand, or a net, or a table because of gravity.

Well exactly - the statement I was presented with was incorrect. What the poster chose to write was not correct and illustrates the story of mistakes people make in generalising out of very specific events which was exactly the point I was making.

The presence of gravity does not always cause objects to fall.

Sometimes eating from the tree of knowledge doesn’t give you all the answers you’re looking for, whether you’re tempted by a serpent to eat the apple or gravity hands it to you. Clever chap that alchemist Newton.

Day follows night (the earth rotates) -well this one is just a self fulfilling categorisation - does night and day actually exist?

I’m not sure that “water is wet” is so much a scientific point as a linguistic one. The definition of wetness is to be saturated with water

Congratulations on a masterful fusion of Reddit-style sophistry with postmodern obscurantism 🏅 Have a nice cool drink of dry water, and enjoy this lovely sunny night.

When would gravity not cause items to fall?

Free will keeps coming up as the excuse - everyone can do whatever they want but god isn’t necessarily going to help you when you need it. I think it’s an excuse to ensure everyone goes to hell but god isn’t keeping his followers on the straight and narrow path. Thank goodness for not believing in the concept of heaven or hell and I can be confident that I won’t go to hell!

When something was sat on a shelf?

That isn’t gravity. The “fact” is, things fall. We can observe things falling and measure how fast they fall and take that data and try to work out why things fall that fast. That’s a theory.

"So in summary atheists say we want scientific quantifiable and measurable data there is a God."

No, I don't. God, the tooth fairy, Santa, leprechans... these are all the same category of fairy tale beings to me. I don't want proof they exist - they clearly don't exist. I don't require proof about the Easter Bunny either. It's all silliness that requires none of my attention, aside from politeness to children and believers .

FFS, gravity is a weak force attracting bodies of smaller mass towards the centre of bodies with greater mass. To observers on Earth, this is known as "falling".

The moon and other satellites don't fall to Earth because they started off on a forward trajectory which, while inertia is not a force, competes with the Earthwards attraction from our planet due to the satellites' residual energy. The resultant orbital motion could be characterised as a series of infinitesimal falls.

I'm off to do some washing up in wet water before the next load of meaningless non-scientific burble.

Or am I washing up? Do I only think I'm washing up? I've been imagining my dirty dishes washing themselves up, but they're still in the sink with bits of food on them. Or are they really dirty? Am I imagining the dirt? Are the dishes really in the sink? What even is a "sink" anyway???????!

But you asked “when would gravity not cause items to fall?”

But this illustrates the problem with science -it often doesn’t ask the right questions and is often based on preconceived man made notions like night and day.

"The presence of gravity does not always cause objects to fall."

I missed the first thread, but this is kinda fun. 🍿

I mean it is fun in the way it relates to Newtons law of motion. - bit perplexed why no one has brought that up,

I mean I handed it to them with the item on the shelf and everything

Well exactly - the statement I was presented with was incorrect.

Apologies - I should have said "Objects fall because of gravity" Thanks for removing "to the ground"

It’s gravity that is keeping it on the shelf. I mean, seriously.

I referred to Newton's first law, regarding satellite orbits.

When you mentioned "Newtons law of motion", are we to suppose you meant all three laws?

The second law is momentum (see satellites' infinitesimal falls);

Third law: conservation of momentum. This accounts for the book resting on the shelf. If you want to be really picky, the shelf and book are constantly pushing against each other.

It isn’t the only reason though is it?

Yes that’s what it usually means

Op needs someone to link to the primary curriculum on Forces... and philosophy for children.

I wouldn’t get too worried or fixated on this. I have a strong faith and I really don’t mind if others don’t due to needing proof or whatever. I know what I believe and feel and that’s enough for me. I can’t police what others think.

You can’t see or “prove” what love is made of for example but I know it exists. Some however might say it’s just a chemical reaction in the brain. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in a spiritual sense. I did my 3rd year thesis on spiritual beliefs at end of life and it was surprising how many people started questioning their need for proof when facing death. Faith can be a great comfort for people but it has to be something people seek from within themselves rather than from being handed “proof”.

Not really - think you need to revisit this. -ON the shelf!!!!🤦‍♀️

As someone with faith what would you say are the positives in your life compared with mine as an atheist?

Did you argue about Einstein's theory when you were at school?

Well, as I’ve been saying- it’s all relative! I’ll leave the arguing about Einsteins theory to the scientists doing it!