Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

What evidence do you have that there is a “Holy Spirit”? And if you don’t have any, on what basis do you believe in it?

Genuinely interested.

Hi

Evidence? I refer you back to my first paragraph of the post you quoted. Basis? My own lived experience. 🙂

Jesus told us to have [spiritual] ears to hear and [spiritual] eyes to see. Open the eyes of my heart, Lord. We need the Holy Spirit in order to 'get' it.
I don't understand, though. Why does god feel the need to play hide & seek?

Are you looking? Do you want God in your life?

ThegreatestofthesisLove - we have matching usernames (almost)! Thank you, yes that probably is a better way to put it. TBH I don't feel irritable or fearful or the things ppl on this thread have imagined me as being, its just that you can't really say " here, come and live in my mind and you will get it then" so its just then the same old questions which i know that comes across as rude but they ARE the same old questions, I don't mean that horribly.

Thanks. Does the Holy Spirit exist for those who don’t have this lived experience? Or is it like Tinkerbell - it exists if you believe in it, and doesn’t if you don’t? Do you have to go looking for it, or does a belief in it just “happen”? Is it materially real or is it just a feeling?

There must be some process (whatever that is, and however it differs from the scientific method) of arriving at a belief.

I’m genuinely trying to understand.

So evidence for the existence of a god can only be found by those who want there to be a god and are searching for that god. In all other circumstances, any god that exists is able to completely hide any evidence of their existence. Is that any kind of a fair summary?

No.

That what it sounds like to me.
A more in-depth answer than 'no' might be helpful!

Well, quite! I'm also curious as to why a god needs or wants followers to believe rather than provably know that they exist.

TBH God found me, not the other way round.

How?

I do feel that you genuinely want to understand but fear I am unable to explain to your satisfaction. I will try: We all have our own experiences of a whole host of things. You could tell me how much you love your partner/parents/child/pet/whatever or whoever you hold dear - but as I am not you, I could never fully understand how you feel or experience or even 'fell' in love. It's process that is entirely personal.

For many years I did not believe, and argued against Jesus and any deity using all the arguments and points I read from current unbelievers. Then something happened in my life and, in hindsight, over a period of about a year, I realised that God had been putting His people in my path to help me along the way. 99% of those people were and still are complete strangers to me. 'Angels' in disguise, I'd like to think of them. One day, and the only way I can describe it, is that I suddenly in a split second, I just 'got it' and all my arguments and questions melted away. For that very challenging year (or more) I did not see Him because a) I was not looking and b) I would not have recognised Him even if He'd leapt out at me, anyway.

Thanks, I appreciate the reply. I’ve heard similar stories from other religious people. It sounds as if it’s all to do with subjective experience. As you say, it’s completely personal and hard to articulate. I can see why this is valuable for people. I guess I’m struggling with the non-sequitur of how experience of personal revelation or profundity - whatever you want to call it - leads to claims about the world, such as the existence of supernatural beings, the formation of the Universe, that a person can come back from the dead etc.

the problem is then is that its subjective , eg water is water but peoples emotion and feelings etc can be open to interpretation and because person a may say its the holy spirit etc someone else could say its just a biochemical emotion but with water well water is water whoever the person is

" How?"
A bit like lots of pieces of the picture that you put all together and then see the whole thing plus a feeling of " Oh there you are" I don't think you can explain it from outside really but other ppl are probably better than me with that. Plus also some a very strong vision that I had quite randomly when I wouldn't say I was completely atheist but it was more "In theory " and God wasn't part of my life (as I saw it anyway).

Thanks for talking to us @Thegreatestoftheseislove and @1Corinthians13. I think I understand some of the process but am still not with the whole concept. But you have been much more helpful than the OP.

Then something happened in my life and, in hindsight, over a period of about a year, I realised that God had been putting His people in my path to help me along the way. 99% of those people were and still are complete strangers to me. 'Angels' in disguise, I'd like to think of them.

So you chose to believe in God because that has happened?

Have you ever considered that these events might have happened anyway? Or that something much better might have happened if you had not thought about God? In other words, that God had nothing to do with it?

I understand that you believe in God and that it provides comfort to you, but have you ever considered that there may actually not be a God and it's all happened purely in your mind?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/5033205-miracles-weve-experienced?reply=133931390

No problem Senua!

@Thegreatestoftheseislove "The fact we can't, or the fact that God does not respond to 'demands' when He has given us all we need, leaves the unbeliever thinking they've triumphed and somehow proved their own point, and that's a fair claim."

I don't think I've triumphed-although I do think I'm right. What I do think is that if people of faith can't show any evidence for their position, they aren't entitled to any special treatment or consideration.

"TBH God found me, not the other way round."

@1Corinthians13 So God only chooses a select few who he contacts? Why do you think you are among 'these chosen few '? And why would God discriminate others by not 'finding' them? Innocent children dying of cancer for example - why is he not finding and helping them too?

Lalupalina that's two different things, I haven't said either of them actually but I just would say God wants to contact everyone its just we need to be open to it. Children dying of cancer or any awful thing like that is not because God has abandoned us but that death is part of our current existence due to our separation or fall from grace which is described in the Adam & Eve story.
As I said I'm not on here to proselytise (?) and there's much better resources out there than a forum with random people on but that's how I understand it (partially).

death is part of our current existence due to our separation or fall from grace

Biggest collective punishment ever, even North Korea only punish 3 generations.

humanity could then debate that humanity was ment to be the toys of god if one was to believe the adam and eve story ?

sounds bit like the matrix, adam and eve in the matrix as long as they dont have intelligence and can defy god