I don't understand why in the Church of England and Catholic masses we talk about Jesus being the king of Jews....

[confusedaboutreligion]

Surely then if we follow Jesus and his teachings we should be Jewish rather than Catholic or C of E?? Also why in a C of E service do we say "we believe in one holy and Catholic church" during the creed? Surely that is then saying we only believe in the catholic church (yet said during a C of E service)

V. Confused.....

Jesus was Jewish.

Anglican Catholic rather than Roman Catholic.

All down to transubstantiation IIRC.

Henry V111 wasn't a protestant. He just didn't want the popes involvement in English political matters, and his would be divorce was just that!

Jews for Jesus believe that Christians should be Jewish. they piss off most Jews and Christians I think

King of the Jews is because it was anticipated that the Messiah would be a 'King' of the Jews to liberate them from the Romans. When he actually came, he wasn't what they were wanting ( a military style King who could overthrow the occupying Romans) but he threatened the position of the religious leaders, so they had him crucified.

Catholic - I think that just means 'true' as in the 'true' church - will look it up. It is very interesting if you look at musical settings of the mass written just after the reformation, when suddenly people like Byrd and Tallis had to write in English, and syllabically (the latin masses were very melismatic - ie lots of notes to each syllable), whereas the English mass had to be very strictly one note per syllable. In the settings of the Creed, they often highlight the word 'Catholic' in some way, maybe by having a different combination of voices, or a held chord or something, to point up that they still felt that they were Catholics, even though the word catholic in that context doesn't mean 'Roman Catholic'.

Just looked it up - it means 'universal' - so basically what I was saying!

Jesus was born to Jewish parents and was born to be save God's children. At that time Gods children were the Jewish people, some believed he was the messiah and became Christian and some didn't and remained Jewish. Both believe in the same God just that the Jewish faith doesn't recognise Jesus as the son of God.

Hope that makes sense.

Still confused.......I know Jesus was a Jew yet why are we not Jewish if we worship in C of E or Catholic churches? Where did that come into it (I have found my faith again after many years but this timea round have lots of questions). What is the difference between Anglican Catholic (never heard of that) and Roman Catholic (as I was raised)

so the difference is that Jews don't believe that Jesus was the son of God? Who did they think he was then?

Ok, we're not Jewish because the Jewish religion has not accepted Christ as the Messiah. The Christian religion has. So the Jews are still awaiting the Messiah, to the Christians, the Messiah has already come and is Jesus.

AngloCatholic churches are 'high' churches that have lots of the same attributes as Roman churches, but are part of the structure led by the Archbishop of Canterbury, not the Pope, and will be governed by the CE rules, not the Roman.

I think the Jews tend to think that Jesus was a prophet (as do the Muslims), but I'm guessing that they have different opinions!

You are Jewish by birth only through either parents, it's a race thing IYSWIM.

Roman Catholics believe different things about Mary and a few other key things.

ahhh - starting to see a bit better now....T/shell very well explained....

I don't think most jes think that jesus was anyone specific, IYSWIM. He isn't venerated as a prophet, or mentioned.

can anyone recommend any good religious reading?? I am amazed to have found my faith again but of course have lots of questions.......Did the catholic church come after the Jews then? (presuming they did)

It is all confusing, as when the CE was established, it was the same time as the reformation in Europe, and I think Henry VIII jumped on the Martin Luther bandwagon to break from Rome, even though he didn't become part of the 'Protestant' church. He remained a Catholic, but just wasn't loyal to Rome. After that I think the Church of England developed alongside the Catholic and Protestant churches, but is not the same as either. You then have the Methodists who broke away from the Anglicans, and URC, Baptists, Episcopalians etc etc etc.

And within the CE you have the high anglo-catholic churches, the low evangelical ones, the village churches, cathedrals etc

Practising Jews have not heard/been taught about Jesus they don't have the new testament, they aren't shown how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies to be the messiah, they are still waiting for Elijah to come first - but Elijah they are waiting for is John the Baptist (well that is what Christians believe)

'You are Jewish by birth only through either parents, it's a race thing IYSWIM' In the orthodox tradition your are Jewish if you mother Jewish. Father is not taken into account.

You can covert, but Judaism doesn't activly seek converys and to convert to Orthodox Judiasm takes a lot of time and effort

you can see why I am confused! I was basically raised a catholic but lost my faith around the age of 20....12 years later is has returned but I am trying out C of E as I don't agree with some of the outdated catholic views......(I don't want to antagonise or offend anyone with that comment BTW so please don't leap on that)

I am not sure where to turn, I know I believe now because of something that happened but not sure that the church I am going to at the moment is fulfilling my faith....I am very confused about things atm

excellent website on aspects of Jewish tradition and belief, here on the attitude to jesus, from a jewish standpoint

Wikipedia article on Judaism's view of Jesus

cargirl you say that practising jews have not been taought about Jesus yet if he was the king of Jews then surely they must hold him to some esteem?? (Again I am not questioning the Jewish faith but trying to organise my own thoughts and questions which you ladies ae really helping me to do...much appreciated BTW)

ok just read the Wikipedia that you posted and it basically confirms what cargirl was saying....if this being the case, am i right in saying that Jews don't believe in Jesus as the son of GOd but CHristians do and therefore call him King of the Jews??

Mb but in the bible/scriptures it is very clear that being jewish is via your Father, the mother thing is something the "church" has implemented it's not scriptural

he wasn't a King, crowned in the sense that we would recognise today

No jew recognised the divinity of christ, he is not considered a prophet and he wasn't a King.

It is like expecting christians to recognise Muhammad

The Jewish rabbis did not accept him as 'King of the Jew's'. That was rather what they hoped the Messiah would (and indeed will) be. When they crucified Jesus, Pilate nailed a board above him with INRI (I think) - which read King of the Jews. The leaders objected to this and said he should change it to 'He said he was the King of the Jews', but Pilate said 'what I have written I have written' and left it at that.

Although the Muslims do recognise Jesus as a prophet MB!