Trying to be a Christian... any tips?

[HeroicMinute]

I've just started listening to the Hallowed app. The first thing I've come across is a Routines course, which is great for me as I am horrendous time waster, which probably explains why I haven't spiritually evolved.
I was raised loosely Christian and attended the village church as a child. I think I want to replicate this traditional experience, but with some slightly more intellectual content.
I've been thinking about Christianity for a few years, and have tried a few different churches, but nothing's stuck.
My reasons for not sticking at a church:
-I can't handle a church band, it all seems very nice and worshipful but it makes me cringe a bit. I love a choir.
-I am very opposed to modern identity politics and didn't go back when a vicar started talking about structural racism in the church.
-I stopped going to an evangelical church because the curate was sweet and excited about his Christianity but did lengthy sermons suitable for children with no analysis or intellectual stimulation.
-found a curate at another church a bit creepy.
-found the sermon in a big popular church on 8th October to be a bit antisemitic.

You get the picture; I'm a bit of a PITA and I'm obviously putting up barriers. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a particularly intellectual person but I am curious and I sincerely want to be a Christian. I don't yet believe properly, sometimes I do, well I suppose I usually do, but with varying levels of conviction.
Any tips would be very gratefully received.
Thank you in advance.

This is lovely. So happy for you. Your words remind me of the simplicity and beauty of a new life in Christ.
God bless you xx 💕🙏🏻

@Kdtym10

So how should women let Gods light shine through them- well in the same way men should, I would understand that by first finding and cultivating that light or the kingdom of God within, what that looks ike is going to be different for each of us.

And that's what I have been doing. And I've been sharing that on here.

And also that I feel Paul's criticism was aimed at the women who were criticising him and attempting to teach over him. (As I have said upthread). So in other words being respectful is important. Forgiveness and being able to move on from someone's past is important. Compassion over someone's weaknesses is important. And if things keep getting heated it's actually a very good idea to concentrate, at least for a while on good works. Both for yourself and others. 😉

I don’t get why you’re defending misogyny- exactly what authority do you think Paul had. do you think it’s a good and enlightened response to tell people who challenge your self styled authority to be quiet and submit to men in the home. Paul is definitely a wolf in sheep’s clothing Jesus warned about.

Anyone who tells me to submit to a man just because he is a man is unworthy of my attention.

I don’t get why you’re defending misogyny- exactly what authority do you think Paul had. do you think it’s a good and enlightened response to tell people who challenge your self styled authority to be quiet and submit to men in the home. Paul is definitely a wolf in sheep’s clothing Jesus warned about.

@Kdtym10& @pointythings not defending misogyny. To be respectful and hear a teacher out so you can understand more fully the scope of what they are saying is not submitting. It's just lending them an ear to hear them out. Much is missed when someone is trying to explain something complex and nuanced if you leap on every single detail. And Paul did say this:

"27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:27-29)

I think you need to read Paul more holistically, in the context of what he was saying, in the times he was living in,to get a better understanding of the situations he was referring to. And also remember, although God was working in him and through him, he was human with all that entails. It is good to recognise his hubris, he doesn't shy away from it either.

Well exactly- this what I just don’t get, people tying themselves in knots to defend it.

I thought gnostics were supposed to be about knowledge, yet you don't even understand the basic tenets of Christianity. A child is able to grasp them, and that's not to be condescending, it's to point out that your "knowledge" is getting you nowhere. You are no closer to having a single one of your sins forgiven, or an inch closer to knowing God by your distorted beliefs. If you had peace and knew God, then you would be here to share - but is it not both alarmingly sobering and telling that you are not here to give, because you have nothing to give?

Yes, sure, you can come on here and debate, but you need to admit to yourself that you don't actually know much about Christianity and your view of the Scriptures and hermenutical approach is skewed to the point that the results of them are false and deceitful.

You have no Gospel, no good news to share with anyone.

But how do you decide when God was working through Paul and when he was just being subject to human fragility. When his words are inconvenient?

I know you like that quote from Galatians and I 100% agree we need to look at Paul much more holistically which is what I’ve been saying all along long. So we need to look at him in the light of being a Greek Man, in the 1st century Eastern Med. A Jew who it is largely now agreed was a practitioner of the developing tradition of Jewish mysticism, specifically some form of chariot mysticism and a likely initiate. One who made a habit of writing letters to set out his views on what it meant to be a follower of Christ including how to behave (which was sec dependent). He was a man who had never met Jesus but claims he had been blind for 3 days after collapsing on the road to Damascus then had his sight restored obviously to mirror the resurrection story (the Bible generally likes to be neat about these things and 3 is a widely accepted number re transformation). He had previously been employed to persecute Christians but since his rebirth had obviously lost that particular income stream. He then claimed that God/Jesus was speaking through him. Large chunks of orthodox Christian’s doctrine (and the NT) are based on his teachings.

So what was the background of such a man. TBC (sorry just need to do something)

This is wonderful news. And so nice to hear the Spirit of God leading you to read the Scriptures.

Have you read pilgrims progress? John bunyan described carrying the weight of sin like walking around with a great weight on his back that he could not detach and it went with him everywhere, as a great burden, and when he got to the Cross/believed that the atonement was made for him, the burden on his back came off and it rolled away to never come back. I think it's such a great illustration of what the believer experiences when they come to Christ.

You don’t seem particularly hot on “turn the other cheek” but there we go!

Can you point out where I’ve misquoted the Bible? I actually do know quite a bit about the different Christian schools of thought. as much as you would like me not to know much about orthodox Christianity- surely you realise you’re on a highway to nothing with that? Can you point to something specific I’ve said that would suggest otherwise please? I’m particularly interested to hear specifically where I’ve been “false and deceitful”,

I have plenty of good news, The good thing about biblical hermeneutics is that it has developed to embrace different interpretations, I am offering up on that isn’t orthodox, but is accepted amongst many scholars., We could discuss Gematria in the Bible - one of my friends has written several books on that, if you like.

Interestingly John Bunyan is buried in a non- conformist graveyard. I walk past his grave every time a visit the grave of William Blake who is almost opposite him.

Glad to see you quoting those who rejected orthodox Christianity. There’s still hope🤣

@Kdtym10 don't you ever find what is written in the Bible reaches you on a deeper level, beyond all the hermeneutics? Are you never just affected by it?

I come from a literary background of dissecting and dismantling texts, I have had enough of that to fill a lifetime. Now I simply like to just soak stuff in and mull it over. And my faith is a bit like that. And I don't forget Christianity is a faith. How can we expect to intellectualise God? Futile. That would be like the Garden of Eden all over again. We'd just come to the knowledge that all we need to do is receive what he willingly will give us for free.

What is your good news if you have plenty of it? What do you have to share here?

You have no arguments against the Gospel. You are trying but each one is falling flat. So what do you have to offer?

I don't think that questioning the Scriptures equates to intellectualising God. It isn't a zero sum game. And you would have to be very naive not to see the way the Scriptures as we know them have been selectively edited, censored and manipulated in order to control people. Questioning is essential. Uncritical obedience is dangerous. It's absolutely possible to have a relationship with God but take the Bible with a few grains of salt.

@pointythings, there's questioning and questioning! I fear @Kdtym10 would have an entry requirement of reading all the apocryphal texts, all religious texts contemporary and non contemporary to the times, and a good few grimoires to boot!

Christianity is a faith and within that faith there is the promise that if we have faith in God, He will grant whatever we pray and ask Him for, according to his will. So we can simply ask for wisdom and understanding of scripture according to His will and believe in faith we will receive this. Simple.

@pointythings upthread you commented you felt my interpretation of scripture was thoughtful and that's what I do. 🤷‍♀️

‘Love one another as I have loved you. By this, everyone will know that you are my disciple.’

It’s that simple…

It is and you are, I stand by that. However, other people will interpret Scripture differently and with a different emphasis. @Kdtym10 is coming at it from a more feminist perspective and as an atheist feminist ally of the LGBT community, I align with that. There are too many things that are problematic in more 'traditiona' versions of Christianity for me to ever feel it is morally acceptable, never mind a source of strength and comfort in the way my atheism is. This is also what makes organised religion problematic - people do things in groups that they wouldn't contemplate doing alone. My late in laws were committed Christians of the kind I wholly respect and they had to change churches several times as shifts in the power balance in their church led it into inhumane and corrupt practices. This is why we always need to question and be vigilant.

@Itsabeautifulthing
hello again! I just wanted to make you aware of the Christian Mumsnetters board, in case you hadn’t seen it.

You will find it much more encouraging and supportive place than this board, which is specifically assigned to be a forum for philosophical / religious debate and can become rather dreary and depressing.

You will be most welcome xx 😊💕

Sorry- so I continue.

Paul was a Greek Jew who most think studied at a school where there was a lot of the Greek philosophers. You can find many examples in Paul that are almost direct quotes from the works of the Greek Philosophers. One really must consider Paul in this context in deciphering what he was saying - was he quoting God or Plato? What did he understand from knowledge of these works, no doubt others would have recognised many of these points from Greek philosophy- so would have understood Paul in this context.

I’ve linked upthread about the doctrine of the unity of opposites. This doctrine is from in the Greek philosophers and many different branches of mysticism - it is this doctrine of the unity of opposites that the Galatians quote is referring to the make/female is not man:woman it is opposites - unity is found the divine - I have linked a description of the point in Kabbalah which although dated slightly later than chariot mysticism has some of the same concepts. www.newkabbalah.com/CoincJewMyst.htm

Which particular arguments are “falling flat”? You keep saying I’m wrong, I don’t understand, but each time you have said that and I’ve asked you to give examples you have failed to do so and then proceeded to post another foot stamping episode. Do you have anything to add here.

My “good news” is more people are awakening to the true messages of Jesus are the strangle hold (literally) orthodox Christianity has over society is waning.

Yes- exactly - apparently “love one another” unless you are:

Gay
a woman (esp ones who are intelligent and not submissive)
a non Christian
a Christian who doesn’t believe in whatever dogma is prevailing at the time
someone who asks questions
someone who doesn’t submit to their husband
money lenders - NatWest staff I see you in hell
the Monty Python guys
heavy metal bands
women in short skirts
people who happen to reside in areas that someone who gives lots of money to the church wants

eyc etc - yep really simple

What a great comment. 👏🏻

Yes, those who belong to Christ, those who are His disciples, are commanded to love each other as He loved us.

It is as profound as it is simple and it is the distinguishing mark of a true disciple of Christ.

“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13: 34-35

I’m going to use the analogy of Blake. When I first read Blake I loved the beauty of the words, I knew they meant something. But then I studied what others said about Blake, especially his prophetic works and the words became even more alive. Then I went to the source of the influences on Blake and suddenly my own imagination became aligned to his and as I read his words my imagination interwove with his words, a true unity that I would never have been able to reach by simply finding his words beautiful but incomprehensible.

So the Bible is like that yes on a superficial level it says so nice words in parts, reading what others say offers deeper understanding but true unity can only be reached by understanding the influences, background and motives.

In searching out the original sources I’ve found that the originals resonate a lot with me, rather than being filtered through people I don’t agree with like Paul. There’s some beautiful Gnostic writings like the hymn of the Pearl which will throw quite a bit of light on the Bible.

@Kdtym10

You can find many examples in Paul that are almost direct quotes from the works of the Greek Philosophers. One really must consider Paul in this context in deciphering what he was saying - was he quoting God or Plato? What did he understand from knowledge of these works, no doubt others would have recognised many of these points from Greek philosophy- so would have understood Paul in this context

Just because Paul said the same thing as Plato doesn't preclude that particular point as coming from God.

I believe we are all made in the image of God, therefore we all have aspects of God in us. It's just people can have difficulty being on the same wavelength as God without actively connecting with God and therefore might think and act sub-optimally and start habitually thinking and acting sub-optimally.