How do you cope with lack of spirituality around you

[FallingStar21]

I am a spiritual person, not religious per se, but my beliefs are quite close to the Buddhist teachings. I also respect and believe there's truth and wisdom in every religion.
My "issue" is that I struggle with the lack of spirituality around me. I mean mostly at work or random every day places where you need to talk to people etc
I never start a conversation of that sort (in fact I shy away from disclosing anything about my personal faith). But as people love to discuss all kinds of things and share their opinions, I have realised that the majority are very much in the material so their interests and priorities are very different. They can often be very sceptical, if not dismissive, of anything that's not part of it and that's another reason I don't say much on such topics.
Of course everyone has a right to believe or not believe whatever they like, but ithe lack of spiritual awareness and mindfulness is really bringing me down. Anyone else feels that way?

"The garden is beautiful. It does not need fairies at the bottom of it."
This, Curlew.

Fairies add the most amazing dimension to it though!

Exactly, the garden doesn’t NEED fairies, it is beautiful anyway, but it can become sublime if you see the spirits there too.

@OMG12, what do you think is at the epicentre of all these debates?😉

Well as someone who holds Neoplatonism in high regard, The All/everything is always at the centre 🫢

@OMG12 I think we are all Chrysalis when compared to the butterfly life cycle.🙂

well we all have potentiality - that is the point- quite literally

So we are all in the same boat so to speak. If we keep rocking it someone may fall out.

Just to add the slight opposite view. It can be difficult as an atheist to discuss spirituality. Because if I say I think it's all untrue or lies it obviously sounds dismissive and rude.

But other than saying I don't believe in any of it I do not have anything to say about spirituality. Because I don't have any! So what are we meant to say in that conversation?

when you get funny looks etc it's actually likely that they are uncomfortable. They have nothing to say about it bar that they don't believe any of it.

It's hard to have a discussion about something when to you it's all just made up (to us I'm not saying it is to you).

@TheWayoftheLeaf,

"Just to add the slight opposite view. It can be difficult as an atheist to discuss spirituality. Because if I say I think it's all untrue or lies it obviously sounds dismissive and rude."

I think a good starting point is to contemplate the sheer complexity of life. This quote from the biologist Merlin Sheldrake illustrates this very well IMO:

"Someone got up to talk about a group of plants that produced a certain group of chemicals in their leaves. Until then, the chemicals had been thought as a defining characteristic of that group of plants. However, it transpired that the chemicals were actually made by the fungi that Iived in the leaves of the plant. Our idea of the plant had to be redrawn. Another researcher interjected, suggesting that it may not be the fungi living in the leaf that produced these chemicals, but the bacteria living inside the fungus." (P18&19 Entangled Life by Merlin Sheldrake).

When symbiotic connections run so deeply that our very understanding of where the boundaries lie between one organism and another it is very helpful to me in terms of understanding themes of love and complete harmonious unity within my own Christian faith. Yet this is a very tangible example of unity within the natural physical world.

In terms of struggling with beliefs concerning spirit you have to analyse what the word actually denotes beyond the cliched view of cartoon ghosts. Singular words/terms are never going to completely accurately denote the actuality of phenomena.

Maybe connectedness and a cohesiveness is a good perspective to contemplate the actuality of what is meant by spirit, for example once the physical reality of our bodies stops working and we die so does the connectivity between our individual cells. Our atoms then disperse into a bigger space. The sense of who 'we' are is lost unless the 'we' becomes connected to something bigger...

You’re going to have to expand on that I’m afraid.

@OMG12,

'You’re going to have to expand on that I’m afraid'

That's a bit of synchronicity I was just thinking about expansion this morning. If we expand our harmonious connectivity our sense of who 'we' are becomes bigger. During a typical debate the losing idea is rejected. Something is then lost. It can be reductive. To use the boat analogy someone could be lost overboard.

Biblically, I feel this piece of scripture ties in with this:

Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat."

The people who are sifted out would then be lost. What if there is a way to find connection between apparently polarised ideas? Find the contexts where each extreme and everything in between applies. We then have a dial instead of a clicky switch regarding perception. A unified smooth movement not a rocky boat which jolts the passengers.

And so perceptions then increase...

Obviously that’s how you feel, but I know many atheists who cannot only discuss spirituality, but dedicate quite a lot of their time to practices that arguably are very spiritual.

I think, often the issue is how spirituality is defined. I often see it confused with religion, a religion that is reliant on the actual existence of gods/goddesses. Religion has been defined without the use of such gods of course eg William James stated that religion as a belief in “an unseen order and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto”

For me, this definition also serves well for spirituality though. Scientists agree that the universe is made up of energy. People who are spiritual would largely also concentrate on this. How everything is energy. There might be differing opinions over how much this energy can be manipulated, how many layers of energy exist and to what ends but there is a shared basic premise.

Rationality and spirituality happily coexist in many. Blake’s quote of “everything that is now proved was once only imagined” can be interpreted in several ways but at its most basic can be seen as science often finds evidence of what was previously just a thought.

Of course, many philosophers are also atheists, yet those who are spiritual often share similar thought processes but sometimes with different conclusions. However, there’s enough shared foundations to spark great conversations.

To discuss or debate something doesn’t mean that you have to agree, in fact that wouldn’t really be a debate. I think I’m the key is respect, to be open, to ask, to seek, to clarify. Like this thread has illustrated confusion can arise over language and concepts, but these things can be clarified (all these things apply to all parties). What stops discussion is shit like “sky fairies”, or trying to make out that spirituality is the same as being stupid. Some of the most erudite and intelligent people I know are extremely spiritual (some of whom are also atheists).

My "issue" is that I struggle with the lack of spirituality around me. I mean mostly at work or random every day places where you need to talk to people etc

You know in many organised religions, there's this sin: "spiritual pride."

You are assuming you are more "spiritual" than those around you. This is extremely arrogant.

Listen to people. Open your mind, get over your ego. Let go of your pre-conceptions ("Let go and let god"). Listen.

What stops discussion is shit like “sky fairies”, or trying to make out that spirituality is the same as being stupid.

No more so than patronising, and telling people they are close-minded/just haven't felt it yet/cannot possibly get it/are missing something.

You seem to consistently fail to see that those things are equivalent. You do it yourself and then deny spiritual/religious people do it. You don't see the smug superiority that comes across in those arguments.

And this is generally why discussing this subject is not enjoyable on either side. One side struggles not to say something that implies the other person is missing something real and obvious, and the other side struggles not to say something that implies they fundamentally think what the other side believes is stupid.

Ah thanks, I get you. Hopefully my latest post accords with that thought too (synchronicity 😀).

I think that there are more things that unite us than divide.

I guess the issue arises when people cut themselves off. Most spiritual people (esp in the west) realise the importance of foundation, of grounding, in the physical earth whilst also being present the spiritual the two things, obviously aren’t separate so to just having to express the one can feel very limiting. . Others just concentrate on the material, I understand that this can lead to a frustration and feeling limited. It’s like having two children but only being allowed to discuss one, if you mention the other you are laughed at, derided etc

i think the OP is just tired of that situation and wants to find somewhere where she can be her whole self without fear of attack and with freedom to express herself knowing the other person will speak her language.

People can feel awkward or worried about the 'big stuff' meaning of life type questions.

Have you read the 32 questions to fall in love? That could be a fun game to play over lunchtimes etc (but not with the aim to fall in love!) the school of life also has lots of little question box things that you can use for dinner party conversation starters.

’never trust a hippy’

But spiritual people are just describing what they believe to exist, what do you want them to do? Deny something they see as existing to make you feel comfortable? People who use the term “sky fairies” etc are setting out to cause offence. Can you not see the difference?

Im interested why you joined a thread about how to find people to discuss spirituality with though?

But spiritual people are just describing what they believe to exist, what do you want them to do? Deny something they see as existing to make you feel comfortable? People who use the term “sky fairies” etc are setting out to cause offence. Can you not see the difference?

No, they often aren't. They're saying things like "the problem is that people close themselves off to it", or "you're not in a place in your life where you're ready to be open, but that's ok". The OP herself referred to people that don't believe as lacking awareness and being very "material", and that was just in the opening post. The implication that people who don't believe are closed minded or missing something in their life is no less infuriating than people saying "sky fairy" is to you. So no, I don't see the difference. You don't see that there is a very similar form of condescension on both sides. And no, you don't need to pretend you don't believe. But this is exactly why people avoid the subject. It is not enjoyable being patronised, so best avoided on both sides.

Im interested why you joined a thread about how to find people to discuss spirituality with though?

For the same reason everyone else did? Because the conversation peaked my interest. It has not remained purely about where to find other spiritual people throughout.

I think it has remained very much on why spiritual people seek each other out, and I think that ties in with your comments very well.

I think the types of comments you mention very much reflect a person expressing concepts within spirituality, about transmutation and spiritual development. I guess if you find the comments difficult then don’t get involved in those conversations. But it’s difficult for spiritual people to have conversations without the devout atheist leaping in (as quickly happened on this thread).

Secularism can be more accepting than any specific faiths, but I agree that it also feels a bit empty. I've got my own take on things and it feels quite lonely, a lot of spirituality seems to be about community and that can be hard to find, especially when you go through a big change of perspective. Personally I find nature magnetic and comforting and just look for fun stuff

I don't use language like sky fairies and stuff like that because I enjoy talking about faith and belief and philosophy and spirituality and transcendence. But I do find the "if only you'd open yourself/think more/ be more accepting" attitude infantilising and patronising. As if somehow believing in the supernatural indicates a higher level of development than not.

@W24 What does secularism mean to you?

I think the types of comments you mention very much reflect a person expressing concepts within spirituality, about transmutation and spiritual development. I guess if you find the comments difficult then don’t get involved in those conversations. But it’s difficult for spiritual people to have conversations without the devout atheist leaping in (as quickly happened on this thread).

Well they might be discussing concepts within spirituality, but what they are saying is patronising about others. This creates a feeling of ill will that makes people that do not believe wary and often negative about those that do. We know that this is how we are spoken about, and often to, by spiritual and religious people. And yes, that is why I DO avoid engaging in discourse with these people. That is the point I was making - and one that has been relevant throughout the thread, which has repeatedly touched upon discussions about spirituality between those that don't believe and those that do.

And yes I can see your point that atheists have jumped onto a discussion between the spiritual - but the OP did contain some statements that were provocative, and then also questioned why people seem hostile and give her funny looks. What I find most interesting is that you don't seem to be able to see that and acknowledge that spiritual people do make comments that are just as annoying and condescending as your "sky fairy" comment. It is not a one sided thing where only one side is patronising to the other.