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Original poster

Atheists -what makes you so sure?

585 replies

OMG12 · 14/06/2023 19:12

I often wonder what makes atheists so sure that there isn’t a god. I’m not talking a particular iteration of the Divine, eg it’s easy to say I can’t believe there is a God because of childhood cancer, but that is predicated on the concept of a God who is only good and considers childhood cancer as bad and further is capable and willing to stop all bad things. I’m talking gods not religions here which a very different things.

Most cultures throughout time have have gods so it’s somewhat of an anomaly to not believe. I just wonder why people don’t believe. (And can we try and keep this a decent debate rather than any of the sky fairy shit those with an inability to debate a point beyond regurgitated social media soundbites seem limited to)

OP posts:
Fandabedodgy · 14/06/2023 20:17

Atheism is just as much a belief as any other

I disagree - it's the absence of belief.

Numbertwenty · 14/06/2023 20:19

OP, do you have a faith?
Let’s say you are Christian.
You know how, as a Christian, you don’t believe in Allah or Thor or Buddha or Ganesh?
Thats why, as an Atheist, I go just 1 God further and also don’t believe in the Christian God.

WunWun · 14/06/2023 20:21

The complete lack of evidence and the fact that it doesn't make the slightest bit of logical sense.

TopMog · 14/06/2023 20:22

Reading the fictional book The Source by James Michener was an eye opener to me about the falsity of religion. The plot: Archaeologists digging at the tell at Makor uncover artefacts from each layer, which then serve as the basis for a chapter exploring the lives of the people involved with that artefact. The book follows the story of the Family of Ur from a Stone Age family whose wife begins to believe that there is a supernatural force, and the society starts believing in a deity.

JRHartleysmum · 14/06/2023 20:22

No evidence, zero, nothing.

SpareHeirOverThere · 14/06/2023 20:27

Atheists do not believe there is no god(s). There is no feeling of doubt or certainty about a 'belief'.

There is no god, and atheists have observed that fact.

It's like asking me how I can be so certain that Santa Claus isn't real. There is no Santa, and I am aware of that.

I'm not trying to be dismissive or rude to those that believe. Just explaining the atheist world view.

Soozikinzii · 14/06/2023 20:28

I find the Unitarian Univeralism to be the best view by far because they believe everyone has their own spiritual viewpoint and search . So you can actually be an atheist and a UU .

Whataretalkingabout · 14/06/2023 20:31

@WiseUpJanetWeiss and @Fandabedodgy

Atheism is the belief that there is no god/ gods.
Absence of belief is agnosticism, as it was explained by PP . Agnostics admit they simply do not know. Most people who do not believe in a deity are agnostic, not atheists. Most people don't really give it much thought.

To say " there is no god" is an affirmation ; but because it is not verifiable it is simply a belief.

eurochick · 14/06/2023 20:31

For me it was when I realised how cynical organised religion is and how it is used to control the masses.

And that many things people used to believe were caused by gods now have scientific explanations. God is used as a concept to explain what we can't yet explain but one day will no doubt be able to.

Spidey66 · 14/06/2023 20:31

I was brought up Catholic but now describe myself as an atheist. I don’t believe there’s any evidence of God. It’s like asking me to believe in Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy. As quoted in Father Ted : ‘Blind faith. That’s all we have to go on.’

overitunderit · 14/06/2023 20:32

To paraphrase someone very close to me "if there is a god he is a cu*t". Religious people tie themselves in knots trying to explain how there is so much bad in the world if there is also a god worth worshipping. None of the arguments they come up with are the least bit convincing.

It seems obvious that religion is a social construct because it was (and is) comforting and helpful by way of explanation. It's clear it was made up by humans seeking the answers all humans seek. The Mormons are a modern example of something literally being made up and the human capacity and desire to believe it anyway.

I sort of wish I did believe because it's so helpful to so many people.

SirChenjins · 14/06/2023 20:34

I don’t believe that there isn’t a god, I know there isn’t - in the same way that I know there aren’t any leprechauns. Religion is a person-made construct, and having a faith and believing in a god isn’t something that you’re born with - you’re exposed to the idea which has zero scientific evidence and you usually follow the religion that your parents were exposed to. It’s a belief system like Rangers are better than Celtic (or vice versa) but with a more complicated rule book.

People have believed in many gods over many years, but none of them are real.

keyboardkat · 14/06/2023 20:35

I don't believe in a god or gods. Organised religion is one of those control mechanisms especially over women. Science speaks for me.

However...... I was brought up Catholic, and I have to say that out of habit I will often say things like Oh dear god, Jesus (blasphemy to some), god rest him/her (Catholics say this on a death), and so on. It's ingrained, but means nothing to me.

Last night I lost my phone. Used the apple watch, it didn't ping, but was at my address on find my phone. Could Not Find It. I said "St. Anthony, please help me find it" as that was what my mother said on losing things. Nope, not in the house. During the night I got up to go to the loo, and had a brainwave, in the pitch dark, went out to the garden table, and underneath it was the phone. It had fallen out of my pocket earlier, and was out of range for wifi so didn't ping. I owe that man a pint!

Anyway, it was my powers of deduction, not anything spectral or holy that found it, but it didn't harm anyone to just out of habit call on himself.

ParticularlySmall · 14/06/2023 20:36

Because there is no evidence. If there was a god, surely we’d all know that there was and could prove it. A bit like how we know there is a sun in the sky. why would god need to be something we can’t see, hear, touch?

Also, if there was a god, then we’d all just believe in that one. The fact that there are different religions is even more proof that there is no god.

Justleaveitblankthen · 14/06/2023 20:41

I don't know how anyone who has read the old testament can believe in such balderdash.

He was such an arrogant vengeful fellow anyway.

The blokes who were writing this work of fiction should have made the main protagonist a tad more likeable 🤨

TopMog · 14/06/2023 20:41

Reading The Source by James Mitchener was an eye opener to me of the falsity of religion. The plot: Archaeologists digging at the tell at Makor uncover artefacts from each layer, which then serve as the basis for a chapter exploring the lives of the people involved with that artefact. The book follows the story of the Family of Ur from a Stone Age family whose wife begins to believe that there is a supernatural force, and the society continues through the years, concocting deities.

Archaeology - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology

Stripedbag101 · 14/06/2023 20:43

It just doesn’t feel real and it doesn’t make any logical sense. Science explains everything.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 14/06/2023 20:43

Whataretalkingabout · 14/06/2023 20:31

@WiseUpJanetWeiss and @Fandabedodgy

Atheism is the belief that there is no god/ gods.
Absence of belief is agnosticism, as it was explained by PP . Agnostics admit they simply do not know. Most people who do not believe in a deity are agnostic, not atheists. Most people don't really give it much thought.

To say " there is no god" is an affirmation ; but because it is not verifiable it is simply a belief.

Agnosticism is the position that it is not possible to know.

I am an atheist - literally without gods. I simply do not believe there is a god. That is not the same as actively believing/having faith there is no god.

Monikkas · 14/06/2023 20:46

I find it hard to believe in a god, there are something like 2000 gods to believe in so I guess my question would be to someone who is religious; why that god and not a different one? It seems to me it depends on location of where you are born and family influences rather than someone picking that god out of all the others.

PermanentTemporary · 14/06/2023 20:46

I think (some) religious practice is quite good for humans, I grew up in a churchgoing household, I was a Christian of a sort for some years, I've studied Judaism and briefly considered converting. Now I'm an atheist.

Religion is very human, the best of it and the worst of it. We evolved it to support ourselves. The idea of a God being closely watching whether or not I lie or steal and apparently caring about that, while leaving my husband to suffer psychosis for years and to take his own life, is ludicrous; frankly it's insulting.

I've never found any religion that has a theology of mental illness that makes the slightest sense. Though I couldn't help notice that my husband thought God was speaking to him in his delusions. And even as a child I had zero interest in an afterlife, now I regard the idea with a kind of nauseated horror.

I've also read the Bible. The Gospels are fairly chilling tbh, extremely harsh and cold to humans, brutal and very focused on the end of the world. The Revelation author was either psychotic or high (perhaps spiritual drug taking of some kind?) And yet there are Christians who genuinely take these texts as a model for life, or even as completely factual! Incredible to me.

Whataretalkingabout · 14/06/2023 20:48

You may or may not believe in a god , maybe you don't know, but nothing is black or white as far as religion is concerned. I personally respect religious people and their faith, some more than others obv. It is everyone's right to believe what one pleases. I dislike the disdain many atheists seem to have for Christians and other people of faith. Religious people are just as human and fallible as the non- religious. However , we must not forget what western civilization owes to Christianity; who knows where we would be today for better or worse?

Anyone read Christopher Hitchens, God is not Great? An excellent read I recommend to everyone on this very subject.

FourTeaFallOut · 14/06/2023 20:50

I actually threw God in with the Santa towel when I was about eight. It seemed perfectly logical that it was another spun narrative. I had an atheistic father, an agnostic mother and religious grandparents who took me to church each week in the hope that I would have something that they felt I would benefit from. So I had a good range to work with but I felt that it wasn't for me - that the concept lacked credibility.

Applebobbins · 14/06/2023 20:51

because if the world started over from the beginning… then humans would most likely create ‘gods’ of different types and stories that would be totally different to the ones we have now.
but science.. someone would be likely to work out gravity eventually and that s= d/t and other scientific principles. Scientific principles are true and repeatable and understandable and explainable. God is not, it’s a story and the religious stories wouldn’t be recreated. That’s how my mind works anyway.

UpUpUpU · 14/06/2023 20:51

Science.

TheHennaHairedHarridan · 14/06/2023 20:51

Because not believing in God is the default position, the onus is on believers to prove the existence of their god (s) not on atheism to disprove it.

Before we had modern scientific knowledge there were a lot of questions that were answered with a supernatural explanation, such as how the world was created. As science comes up with answers then the need for a religious explanation is gone.

Religious people don't believe in all gods, just the god (s) of their particular religion. If you are a Christian, do you believe in zeus? Thor? Why not? Probably the same reason I don't believe in any god.

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