Atheists -what makes you so sure?

[OMG12]

I often wonder what makes atheists so sure that there isn’t a god. I’m not talking a particular iteration of the Divine, eg it’s easy to say I can’t believe there is a God because of childhood cancer, but that is predicated on the concept of a God who is only good and considers childhood cancer as bad and further is capable and willing to stop all bad things. I’m talking gods not religions here which a very different things.

Most cultures throughout time have have gods so it’s somewhat of an anomaly to not believe. I just wonder why people don’t believe. (And can we try and keep this a decent debate rather than any of the sky fairy shit those with an inability to debate a point beyond regurgitated social media soundbites seem limited to)

... I also find it hard to see atheism as something that would provide refuge tbh. There's no community, no platitudes, no comforting ritual, no assurances of forgiveness or eternal life, no welcoming house of atheism!

That's surprising. None of the ex church/cult members I've known have been true atheists. There's no refuge in atheism: no promise of a better life either now or after death, no community, no rituals. The people I've met seem to retain that need for "something" supernatural; maybe some kind of promise. They usually end up following a different church/cult, perhaps more loosely than before.

That said, I am aware of some atheist groups for those who've rejected a religion. I didn't think they talked like atheists - but then, I'm not target audience. As I see it, the only equivalent conversations amongst atheists would be about science. There are already plenty of scientific groups.

I think very positively. i (mostly 😁) do what I consider the right thing because it’s right, not because I fear eternal damnation. And I am not caught up in the anthropocentric world view pushed by religion (which is the foundation of the current environmental mess and so much animal suffering), so I am able to live according to biocentrism without fear, because while I do believe in the long run our existence is futile, while we are here we can have a positive impact.

I guess it’s a very different question when you ask it about others rather than yourself though.

Thanks for answering. You sound like you have great focus on the power of each of us to improve things.

interestingly, I wouldn’t call my view anthropocentric as I believe the divine is in everything, or more accurately is everything. I don’t believe in hell )except the one we sometimes create for ourselves. So,like you I’m pulled towards good rather than running away from the bad.

That is a really interesting point!

I agree, we do seem efficient at creating our own misery/hell. The problematic (IMO) religious types are the extremists who want to control everyone from cradle to grave and/or exploit others (and our environment, ‘because we have dominion’). I believe they put many off religion.

More to the point they put off many people seeking out what god means to them. Religion is optional in the whole thing.

That's the point though. For some people Atheism is a refuge from all that you have listed.
The community can be narrow minded and oppressive
The platitudes make no sense to rational thinkers
No assurances of eternal life but also no threats of eternal damnation and the accompanying guilt

I do find my atheism comforting in a way. I believe that you live, and then you die, and that’s it. So I have one life, which I can choose to spend as I wish. I don’t need God, or religion, for community or comfort. I have my friends and family for that. And I have no need for ‘forgiveness’, as I try to live my life in a way that means I don’t need any. I have no wish for eternal life, either.

Totally agree. I won’t go to hell by the way I live my life as it doesn’t exist and I don’t need to please an imaginary god

I prayed for my mum to not die, she died. Didn't rock my faith. It drew me closer to God

I’ve always thought that an atheist was someone who doesn’t believe in god as there is no evidence - & that they also do not believe that there is no god, as there also isn’t evidence for that

That's surely an agnostic? Atheism literally means 'without god'. Atheists do believe there is no god.

No. Atheists do not believe there is a god. This is not a belief, it’s absence of belief.

I don't expect comfort or community from atheism. How could there be? Atheism isn't a religion or a faith. It doesn't replace those things. It doesn't fill gaps. I find comfort and community in other places.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss
Atheists do not believe there is a god = atheists believe there is no god. Same difference!
Are you afraid to say what you believe or do you think you are superior for not believing in something? Because either way you obviously believe something. You cannot not believe in anything.

Recent replies have made me think a bit. Thank you, PPs.

I find distinct comfort in the ABSENCE of a higher power, grand designer, deity. I love the feeling that I'm just a very long string of accidental developments, and so is every other thing. This even gives me a sense of 'community' or connection.

I love that when I've finished living I will disintegrate to the atoms of which I'm made, and each of those atoms will go on to become parts of other things on this planet and far beyond, blending & transforming for as long as this universe exists. I love that I'm made of stuff that's already 13 billion years old. This is my sense of continuity.

The idea that there's something special about being human feels to me arrogant and unnecessary. I do count myself fortunate to have both the awareness and the knowledge to understand that we are an unusual accident - this perhaps has some equivalence to what people mean by a 'soul', but to me it's a feature of our accidental development. My awareness will die with me (or somewhat before, depending on how my body ages). I don't expect it to carry on without me, floating around in some non-physical form: why would it? It's just biochemistry. Every living thing has biochemistry.

This probably means nothing to people of faith 😂 I find it all marvellous, though!

I do not need the rules or habits/conventions of religion to participate in society or understand morality
religion is a set of rules and doctrine for those who feel they need that external cue and membership of a group to guide behaviour and inform values and beliefs
gods and false deities are a feature of many cultures - doesn’t make it a marker of an ideology or a determinant of good judgment. Simply is an indicator that some people need the reassurance of higher or other power

Being reabsorbed into the whole and being recycled is pretty similar to my beliefs, it’s just there is a higher power involved along the way

That’s religion though, what about God/a higher power etc?

No it’s not the same thing. Actively believing there is no god is a faith position. Atheism is not a religion.

What do you mean, I must believe something? I believe plenty of things, just not gods.

No it’s not the same thing. Actively believing there is no god is a faith position. Atheism is not a religion.

I don't think it is a faith position. Would you regard it as a faith position to believe there are no dragons, or leprechauns? Or any other thing for which there is absolutely zero reason to believe it exists? I don't believe there are dragons. That is the same as believing there aren't dragons.

Agree with this. I also know that dragons don’t exist so i don’t believe in them. I also believe god to be a work of fiction, just like I believe Hogwarts school to be a work of fiction. There in my mind, I know they don’t exist. I don’t consider something not existing to be a faith.

@Whataretalkingabout

Because either way you obviously believe something. You cannot not believe in anything.

I don't believe in fairies.
I believe there are no fairies.

Neither statement means I 'obviously' believe in
'something' re fairies.

I don't believe in dragons.
I believe there are no dragons.

Neither statement means I 'obviously' believe in 'something' re dragons.

Why do you think the meaning of those sentences changes if we substitute the word fairies or dragons for god?

I totally agree with what you've put here about arrogance, this is how I've always seen it too. I don't see any other reason for people to be so adamant humans must be special.

I also like the concept of us all being part of and returning to the atoms of the universe and find it quite poetic, but I don't think I find it very comforting. Same goes for the lack of afterlife etc - I don't find comfort in my lack of faith as others do, I do actually find it quite terrifying. I guess I'm the sort of person that would benefit from believing in a God - my logical brain just can't do it.