transubstantiation

Dasha8 · 2023-05-19T18:42:03+00:00

Do people really believe in transubstantiation (the substance of the bread and wine in the Eucharist becomes Christ's real presence)?

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 20:01

i'm a middle of the road catholic and i believe in the concept but no i'm not a cannibal or vampire.
both are symbolic

newtb · 19/05/2023 20:07

Seem to remember the belief is prohibited along with mariolotry in the 39 articles of the C of E.

DiDonk · 19/05/2023 20:14

Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
2-4-6-8 time to transubstantiate

As Tom Leher would have it, it's bonkers

PurBal · 19/05/2023 20:17

Yes people do. No I don’t.

SwedishEdith · 19/05/2023 20:19

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 20:01

i'm a middle of the road catholic and i believe in the concept but no i'm not a cannibal or vampire.
both are symbolic

What do you mean by "you believe in the concept"? I've had thousands of communion wafers in my time (they're nice!) but this is a bonkers belief, surely.

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 20:20

@SwedishEdith i believe in the concept that the wafer and the wine are representative of the body and blood.

Raaasaur · 19/05/2023 20:24

@greenspaces4peace I’m catholic, although lapsed, but my understanding was that ‘we’ as catholics are meant to believe not in the representative concept (I thought that was Protestant) and that the priest’s higher authority confers on him the ability to in fact turn the bread and wine into the actual body and blood….

(suffice to note, I can’t get my head around this)

Zeonlywayisup · 19/05/2023 20:26

Yes I do, but I’m not sure what you’re doing if you don’t?

SwedishEdith · 19/05/2023 20:39

Raaasaur · 19/05/2023 20:24

@greenspaces4peace I’m catholic, although lapsed, but my understanding was that ‘we’ as catholics are meant to believe not in the representative concept (I thought that was Protestant) and that the priest’s higher authority confers on him the ability to in fact turn the bread and wine into the actual body and blood….

(suffice to note, I can’t get my head around this)

My understanding as well.

SquigglePigs · 19/05/2023 20:55

Personally (raised Methodist) - no - I've always considered it to be symbolic.

TwigTheWonderKid · 19/05/2023 21:17

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 20:20

@SwedishEdith i believe in the concept that the wafer and the wine are representative of the body and blood.

Then how can you be a Catholic? Believing in transubstantiation is surely essential?

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 21:20

@Raaasaur @SwedishEdith of course that is what the church teaches and preaches but for me it's symbolic.

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 21:22

@TwigTheWonderKid because there are lots of other aspects that i find helpful and i'm okay with that.
religion is a very personal experience.

OnMyWayToSenility · 19/05/2023 21:27

No I'd rather be cremated and put back into the earth.

Toddlerteaplease · 19/05/2023 21:29

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 20:20

@SwedishEdith i believe in the concept that the wafer and the wine are representative of the body and blood.

Same here. I do want to believe it but really struggle with it. And as a symbol, it's enough for me. (Practicing RC, altar server and Extra ordinary minister.

MoserRothOrangeandAlmond · 19/05/2023 21:43

Brought up Catholic... my mam was mortified that I said this was all symbolic when I was a young teenager.

The older I get the more bonkers I think it is. My mam on the other hand is becoming a stricter Catholic.

I would describe myself as culturally Catholic rather than a full practicing catholic. Transubstantiation and other practices I just can't grasp

MaterDei · 19/05/2023 21:57

Which is more difficult to believe: that one finite, material thing can be changed into another thing spiritually while retaining its physical properties, or that apparently contradictory properties can coexist in one person? If one cannot accept transubstantiation simply because it seems counterintuitive or implausible, it is difficult to see how one could remain a Christian at all.

birdsongismyfave · 19/05/2023 21:57

I'm Catholic, I do. Not as someone else said in the cannibal/vampire sense, but if I believed in consubstantiation I would believe that I was 'just' receiving bread and wine, and that the bread and wine received in Holy Communion is not substantially different than the wafers and wine the priest brings to the Mass.
I think there is a change undergone by the bread and wine during the Mass into something greater than they were. It has a power to bring us strength and healing, if we're looking.

You might disagree, that's fine. Hopefully you'll agree about the greater importance of seeking points in common rather than of difference x

MaterDei · 19/05/2023 21:59

To answer your question OP, yes people do literally believe.

Can I ask, are you a person of faith?

TwigTheWonderKid · 19/05/2023 22:04

greenspaces4peace · 19/05/2023 21:22

@TwigTheWonderKid because there are lots of other aspects that i find helpful and i'm okay with that.
religion is a very personal experience.

But sure that makes you a Christian, but not a Catholic? I don't think you can pick and chose whether or not to believe such essential aspects of the faith, can you?

MaterDei · 19/05/2023 22:08

Leaving this quote here from the beautifully written Imitation of Christ:

“You must beware of curious and useless searching into this most profound sacrament. He who is a scrutineer of majesty will be overwhelmed by its glory.”

Blueuggboots · 19/05/2023 22:12

It's clearly meant to be symbolic. Anybody that believes someone has the power to turn bread and wine into flesh and blood should be asking that person why they aren't using their super powers to cause good in the world and not just using them to change a symbolic substance into another symbolic substance.

MaterDei · 19/05/2023 22:22

Blueuggboots · 19/05/2023 22:12

It's clearly meant to be symbolic. Anybody that believes someone has the power to turn bread and wine into flesh and blood should be asking that person why they aren't using their super powers to cause good in the world and not just using them to change a symbolic substance into another symbolic substance.

Sorry, the only thing clear here is your complete ignorance of the Catholic faith, of which transubstantiation is literally believed.

Jorvik1978 · 19/05/2023 22:34

MaterDei · 19/05/2023 22:22

Sorry, the only thing clear here is your complete ignorance of the Catholic faith, of which transubstantiation is literally believed.

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Quite. Many people lost their lives over this issue during the Reformation. It's one of the fundamental tenets of Catholicism: that the bread and wine are literally transformed and there is nothing symbolic about it at all.

MMBaranova · 19/05/2023 22:36

Orthodox churches, insofar as I understand it - with understand possibly being a word not to be used, is that Jesus is mystically present. We will fail to understand the mystery.