transubstantiation

[Dasha8]

Do people really believe in transubstantiation (the substance of the bread and wine in the Eucharist becomes Christ's real presence)?

For full disclosure: I am a lapsed Anglican married to a German catholic and we have had many spirited conversations about religion, including transubstantiation, over the years. I like to cite Martin Luther at him to really wind him up ;-)

I was curious after discussing with someone who told me they were Catholic but that they not believe in it, as I had thought that the belief in it was important to Catholicism. I myself am an agnostic.

I was brought up in the Baptist church, and the bread and wine was only seen as symbolic. Now I go to a CofE church, and I think a lot of people there definitely think there's a 'something' about the bread and wine at communion - not that it changes into the actual body and blood, but there's an essence....or presence... in it.
I'm not entirely sure what I make of that - though I get what people mean by it. I suppose it's having such a long time being in one church where it was always as a symbol, that it's hard to change that viewpoint. I definitely don't believe it changes into the actual body and blood of Christ though.

That's not really how Christianity (or religion in general works).

If you are Catholic you are supposed to believe that the Priest uses his magic, passed on by apostolic succession, to change the bread and wine into literal blood and flesh (but they seem physically the same).

If you are a Scientologist you are supposed to believe that the opperator is cleansing you of the literal souls of dead aliens (all over you like invisible dandruff) and that will be £300 please.

If you are a Genderist you are meant to believe that saying the magic words 'I identify as a woman/man' makes you literally change sex instantly.

You don't ask for proof because you have faith. You want to stay in the gang don't you. You aren't one of those fools who don't understand how awsome god/xenu/judith butler is.

I'm a convert to Protestantism having been raised Catholic and really appreciate your answer. Transubstantian is at the very heart of Catholicism and I think it's very problematic to continue in the faith if you don't believe in this aspect. I feel it has a knock on effect on lots of other aspects of the faith. For me, it's like saying 'I'm a communist but believe in the Free Market too'. I have relatives who consider themselves absolutely devout Catholics, who didn't even know this integral doctrine and thought it was ridiculous when told.

If I'm part of a faith system, I have to believe in the central tenants or else everything else crumbles. It was difficult leaving Catholicism as my family all found it very strange. I wished that I could have peacefully reconciled the RC doctrine with what I believed, having studied the Scripture, but I couldn't and joined a Protestant church instead. It's actually refreshing to meet a Catholic who believes in transubstantiation and who has a spiritual view of it.

@TwigTheWonderKid i really do believe you can pick and choose and that any level of participation is helpful.
that there are concepts to be learned which can be helpful in this age.

yes to the process being a spiritual change.

I believe it, yes.
Toddlertea, please stop acting as an extraordinary minister as you are not Catholic and cannot possibly be giving the sacrament the reverence it deserves if you don't believe in transubstantiation.

For me, my Christian faith is an act of worship and reverence to God, and not about what I find helpful. I want a church which points me to the best way to worship and follow him.

He said we are to take up our cross daily, and that, to me, automatically excludes picking and choosing only aspects of the doctrine that I find 'helpful'.

Not attacking by the way (tone is hard to read), just sharing perspectives.

I agree with that, but I can’t see how you can characterise yourself as RC, while not believing a central tenet of the faith. Doesn’t this make you a Christian with an RC background? I don’t mean that critically - I’m one myself! So not having a go at all, just genuinely curious.

I think there are a lot of cultural Catholics who do see the RC church as the familiar fiath that they grew up in, and one which they have a connection to, and ignore or disregard doctrinal issues they don't believe in because they have a relationship with that faith system which has served them.

I was the same until I started reading the Scripture and digging deeper into my relationship with Christ. My time in Catholicism was just a space to connect with 'something' that was bigger than me, but it was very shape shifty and vague and based a lot on my own world view, ideas, viewpoints and experiences. I realised that I had actually created my own religion where God thought just like me and what I believed what was, was right, and what I believed was wrong, was wrong, and it was all held together with a kind of loose, wishy washy sense of religious tradition. It was only when I started attending Protestant services and started studying the Bible that I found more structure and my faith became more Christ focused.

Transubstatiation was just another aspect of the RC faith that I kind of blocked out because it intered with the semi religion I'd inadvertently created in my mind. I think that's how lots of people can still be attached to Catholicism and yet not believe in even some of the core doctrine.

Anyway that's just my story and not anyone else's. Everyone has their own to tell.

@Sundaysundaebananasplit by helpful i don't selfishly helpful to me, i mean helpful to my family/community/dealings with others/understanding of others.
a bit of a road map with lots of options on how to get to your destination.
@MissLucyEyelesbarrow yes spot on, maybe that is how i should/could view my beliefs.
i was a teen in the 70's and the catholic school i attended was very very open at that time to exploring and incorporating a variety of views into our faith. exploring the politics of the time and the reasoning all the while acknowledging the age and language translation.
i am aware that that practice has since changed but i have fond memories and continue to be open minded while doing my best to be a good christian with rc heritage ;)

I don’t but I do know plenty of people who do. The Ex Irish president Mary McAllese took communion in a Protestant church, that caused quite a stir among some quarters due to the whole not transubstantion thing.

Separately I was also taught by a nun who when a student asked her about people living hundreds of years in the Old Testament told us that it was true people just lived longer back then. Some people believe everything literally.

Yes and no. I believe that it is changed and elevated into something better, not necessarily physically but spiritually so I believe it’s more than just symbolic, but if you did a chemical analysis of it it would still be bread and wine

Yes I believe, I can't understand how you can read John's Gospel and not. I returned to my Catholic faith after decades away and the Eucharist was an important factor in that decision.

In fact this isn't a Catholic belief, the Romans accused the early Christians of cannibalism because they spoke about eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ in communion.

Take "magic" mushrooms and understand how this tradition began.

If people weren’t prepared to believe something without a shred of evidence to support it there would be no religion.
Faith requires no evidence or proof.

There have been tests on 'bleeding' hosts and they've found to be made of myocaium. (Heart muscle)

@CrazyCatLady42 I absolutely do fine it the respect it deserves. I was on my hands and knees scrubbing the floor when our deacon dropped an entire ciboruim.

Born and bred Catholic, transubstantiation was never really discussed. I was an altar girl and watched the whole process up close many times and the thought that the bread and wine were actually turning into something else other than symbolically never crossed my mind.
I guess I never was a proper Catholic, and am very much an atheist now.

Do you have a link?

Yes I do.
Worth remembering when the priest says "body of christ?" and holds the Eucharist out to you, by saying "amen" you are agreeing and acknowledging that yes it is the body of christ.
This is not the case in Church of England as they only believe it to be symbolic, but for Catholics it is literal. He did not say "this is sort of like my body" or "this is a symbol of me", he said "this is my body... this is my blood..." so if you're an actively practicing Catholic yes we believe it's really His body and blood. It's one of the beautiful parts of being Catholic 💗

I think if you Google Eucharistic miracles exhibition, that's where I saw it.

Transubstantiation refers to the actual process by which the wafers and wine change. The Eastern Orthodox Church refers to the bread and wine having a Real Presence, but accept it as a Holy Mystery and don't attempt to rationalise or describe it. We don't use the term transubstantiation in our church and it's not a dogma.