A question/guidance for Christians please

[whatcanidotobelieve]

I think that really want to believe. I want to have faith. I want it so badly but I struggle to really accept the bible and its teachings. I have grown up in a religious country and a somewhat religious family, but as a scientist and seeing the hypocrisy of many christians from my hometown (in N Ireland), I struggle with the whole God/Jesus/Bible concept.

I'm not sure what I'm asking...I just wanted to see if anyone could help me?

For me, the realisation that being Christian doesn't have to mean believing that every word of the Bible is true was a huge turning point. I see the Bible as a unique record of people's thinking and understanding about God - but it is not a rule book or a law code. E.g. the creation stories are not literally about the how the world was made. But it's useful in what has to say about humanity's relationship with the natural world.

I find acts of worship (whether that's church services, personal prayer/quiet time or reading) are useful for exploring your beliefs.

And also, doubts aren't bad! It's the doubt and uncertainty that makes faith a living thing.

Hypocritical Christians exist because God gives us free will. We can sin or not, consider or not consider the bible, etc. That doesn't diminish what the bible can teach us.

I also have something of a scientific background. I've found that it only conflicts with parts of the old testament if you read them literally, not as higher-level lessons. You have to be very careful in reading any of the bible literally, as it's been translated from Greek and Hebrew mostly, and as those languages were used 2000 years ago. Translations are tricky. English has one word for love. Greek has four, for example.

What part of the God/Jesus/Bible concept do you struggle with the most?

OP, start from the fact that God loves you, and would love to have a relationship with you. That all He asks is for us to love one another, and Him, with all our heart.
He came here in the person of Jesus, willingly suffering torture and death at our hands, to bring us the promise of eternal life, and the forgiveness of sins.
You can pray quietly at home, in privacy, or among a congregation in church - God will
always hear you. Just start a conversation with Him - or sit quietly, still your thoughts and just allow yourself to receive Him.
There is no special process required, and everyone approaches God in their own way - some via different religions - but all roads lead to the same God.

YY to that, MissConduct.

I think that's the attraction of Catholicism for me*. I also have several RC, Jewish, and Lutheran friends who are scientists / work in the medical field who comfortably combine their faith and the scientific method.

• I know the RC church has its problems, but I don't feel like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Thank you for all your replies..they are so helpful

@MissConductUS I guess I struggle with the fact that if God exists and loves us yet he still lets terrible things happen. He has the power to stop those things and chooses not to. I understand free will, but cancer in children has nothing to do with free will. I understand teaching us so we grow and that it is important (as we must do the same with our own kids, let them make their own mistakes)...but if my child was about to jump into an open fire I would stop them because I love them and won't allow them to knowingly experience pain like that. If God feels the same then why not change things?

Also, someone told me that God just wants to be appreciated and thanked for all he has done. But why? Isn't God above having an ego?

I have a lot more questions...

@Babdoc

But why did he have to come here in human form and experience that suffering? He knew from the start it wouldn't end well so why bother? God has the power to just forgive our sins anyway so why do that whole charade? It seems strange and dramatic?

I'm really not trying to be offensive here, I just don't understand the fundamentals of what went down...or why?

The simple answer is that humans can’t presume to understand the mind of God, but I think He knew what we would do, but was willing to suffer it anyway, in order to bring straying humanity back to His loving kingdom.
Coming here in human form made it easier for us to hear His message and relate to Him as a person.
He gave us incontrovertible proof, through His resurrection - for all time - that God exists, and that death is not the end.
And as a human, He gave us a wonderful role model for our own lives.
Just look at how that one life, over 2000 years ago, has shaped the whole of our culture, ethics, ideals and attitudes. There are now 2.3 billion Christians in the world, all trying, in their fallible human way, to serve God’s bidding and love our fellow creatures. That is awe inspiring.

Your question about God having an ego and wanting to be worshipped made me smile.
Think of God as a parent. I assume you have children, as you are on MN? Well, you don’t line your kids up every Sunday and demand that they chant how much they love you, do you! You just love them, unconditionally. But if they spontaneously say “I love you, mummy”, you are touched and delighted.
So with God, who gave us free will to reject Him, crucify Him, hate Him, choose sin and violence, whatever we want.
But when we voluntarily respond to Him with love, and thanks for creating a universe and us, it gladdens Him.
As the Bible says:
“We love God, because He first loved us”

I think it is like everything ( well, virtually everything) you get better with practice. Some of the Saints may have been privileged to have a blinding revelation and conversion, but even they had moments of doubt and confusion.

This is why a regular programme of spiritual engagement is so helpful to us, who are trying but not always succeeding. A short prayer in the morning and the evening is a moment of opening yourself to God.

‘Lord , I believe. Help my unbelief’.

I believe that we, as humans, are limited. We cannot understand God, as we are not capable. Which is a problem for 21st century individuals.

These answers are really helping...thank you!

But why do we have all these desires to do things that are 'wrong'? Sex drives, lying, self preservation etc etc..

Surely God could have created us without these so we wouldn't be as tempted to sin? Why are pleasurable things so sinful?

I don't think sexual desires, for example, are in and of themselves inherently sinful. HOW we act on those desires, well that's debateable. If you're cheating on your spouse, abusing a child, raping someone... that's all very different from being in a faithful relationship (opposite or same sex). It's about what that's doing to the other person - hurting them rather than loving them.

I wouldn't say self preservation was necessarily a bad thing either - it's a natural instinct, and in many situations it can be life saving. If it's perhaps related to a work situation, or trying to get one up on someone else, or be greedy, or save face even though you're in the wrong, well, again that's to the detriment of other people, so perhaps isn't the best thing to do.

I suppose our natural desire is to put 'me' first - and society's very much 'look out for number one', but I wonder if we've lost a bit of our sense of living in community with and alongside others. All the threads on here about lack of courtesy / manners, politeness, and people being rude to each other would suggest perhaps we have.

Maybe mainstream Christianity isn’t for you. You need to find your own path, something that clicks with you. Have you explored all the different belief systems (there’s many in the western tradition)

OP, of course God could have created us without any temptation to sin. He could have created a species of perfect robots, who were incapable of evil, just programmed to obey God in all things.
But it would have been utterly pointless and meaningless!
To go back to my human parent analogy - you didn’t have to create a baby, that would become a wilful toddler, being naughty, throwing tantrums, yelling that it hates you if it can’t have chocolate all day.
You could have bought a doll instead. It would never be naughty, it could say “Mama I love you” all day, on a recorded loop.
How many of us mothers would swap our kids for that? None of us.
Because we hope that by loving our naughty children, and setting them a good example, and guiding them, we will produce mature humans who will respond to our love with love in return. And it will be genuine and heartfelt, not a meaningless recording. So it is with God, who gave us not just the free will to sin, but a role model in Jesus of how not to.

These responses are helping me see through things...thank you so much.

But why would god create child cancer? Why? That's a hideous thing to do?

And @OMG12 what do you mean about different belief systems? Can you give me some examples to look into?

Have you ever considered the fact Jesus did not simply confirm the religion he was brought up in – he shattered it as he uniquely reinterpreted it. Consequently, he renewed it. To follow Jesus implies that you cannot simply settle into the religion and traditions you were born into. Even if that tradition is based on interpretations of Jesus’ teachings. Recognise what is valuable and radically break from what has grown old and stale. What was relevant and alive for generations past has a tendency to become lifeless idols. “Why do you seek the living among the dead?,” the angel asks in the book of Luke. Why do you seek life in repetitious rituals, in attending yet another meeting to hear the same old boring interpretations/stories, sing the same old songs to try and reproduce the goosebumps you felt 20 years ago. Rather follow Jesus and overturn the tables of a religion that has lost its essence.
Despite the symbols and meanings that saturates your world, no-one else has your perspective. No one else can interpret this world from your vantage point. And the possibilities that are open before you are yours alone, to actualize or reject. The creative stream of this universe is made of many threads, each unique.
I grew up fundamentalist Christian and have moved away from some of those beliefs - like I no longer believe the bible is infallible or inerrant but that doesnt mean it's any less valuable or inspired by God. The people who wrote it were human and it was their interpretation of what was going on around them at the time, but it's a journey that we're all on. I can longer believe in a God who controls things I think he's in us and with us and can influence if we allow him but it's up to humans. I believe in a non violent atonement rather than a God who was so angry that he needed to punish someone - these are all things I've looked into along my journey - listen to podcast - if you PM I can recommend some. Fr Richard Rohr has some good ones.

I don’t for a minute believe that God sat down and decided to create childhood cancers, out of some malevolent wish to inflict suffering.
I think he created the universe, in the moment we refer to as the Big Bang, and allowed it to evolve freely.
Among all the myriad life forms that came from that act of creation were some that humans wish hadn’t- such as parasites, viruses, bacteria. And as our cells need to keep reproducing and repairing, sometimes the DNA makes a mistake and we get mutations, some of which result in cancer. We also contribute to the cancer toll by our own actions, such as smoking, using asbestos, using carcinogenic chemicals, etc. People also age, have accidents, get ill, get involved in wars - life does not come with a guarantee of an easy ride or longevity and prosperity.
But the fact is, life is temporary- we all have to die. And from God’s viewpoint, in eternity, a life of five years or a hundred and five years are both just a blink of an eye. The bit that matters is what comes after it - freed from time and space, as souls in communion with God’s love.

My own husband died young, at 36. He didn’t get to see our baby’s first steps or hear her first words. And I have grieved him for 31 years. You might say why did God allow that, and expect me to be angry with Him. But God didn’t cause DH’s brain haemorrhage, it was just bad luck.
I fully expect to be reunited with DH when I die, and look forward to seeing him again. His granny, who was widowed for 50 years, once said “I’m not a very good Christian - I don’t much care about meeting God. But I do so want to see my husband again!” I understand exactly how she felt, but it is God who has kept me going and supported me through three decades of widowhood, and I do care about meeting Him, humbling and awe inspiring though that will be.
Sorry, I have rambled a bit off topic, OP, but these are huge existential questions that you are raising, and always interesting to ponder!

There are lots of different takes on Christianity to mainstream views. Also many of the ideas that influence Christianity. If have attached a wiki link to Western esotericism which is a kind of umbrella heading for many of these different systems, schools of thought. It links through to descriptions but obviously do your own research.

I would recommend This book.

you can either stick with one system or mix things together (probably most successfully done in the hermetic order of the golden Dawn). There’s lots of you tube channels too if you want pointing to any in particular let me know.

Theres a great channel. Religion for Breakfast that will give you a broad overview of these ideas.

Both Gnosticism and Neoplatonism will answer some of your queries re suffering etc (but with different answers)

Hi OP, I don't think any of these replies have really got to the crux of the matter.

What you need to investigate first is whether or not the Bible is trustworthy and accurate. This needs to be your foundation because answers to your other questions are found there.

The Bible itself claims to be God's perfect word which has made plain to us who he is. So if you come to the conclusion that the Bible is trustworthy, then all of it is true. If you decide it's not trustworthy, how can we believe any of what it says about God?

Secondly, you seem to be thinking of God as bigger, better human being. He is not. He is completely 'other'. So, a human being requiring to be worshiped would be egotistic, selfish, wrong. That's because we know they don't deserve it. But God is the highest, greatest, most holy, most majestic being in the whole of creation. It's right and fitting that he is worshipped. If we are not worshipping God we are worshipping something else undeserving - that's idolatry and God cannot allow that. As God says in Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.”

Finally, the Bible also tells us that God is sovereign and whilst he is not the author of evil, he has allowed it - for a time. He promises to bring it to an end once and for all when Jesus returns. He had already broken the power of sin and death through Jesus's death so we know he will do what he has promised. We don't know why everything happens how it does but we can be sure God hates evil and sin so much more than we do - and he WILL deal with it once and for all. This is our hope as Christians.

Pray for God to reveal his true self to you. If you truly seek God you will find him. But you will find him as he is, not as you want him to be. And this is so much better!

everyone approaches God in their own way - some via different religions - but all roads lead to the same God.

@Babdoc I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME. ~ Jesus, circa AD 33.

@twizzlesx Praise be, someone who understands! You speak the truth. 🙌

Daffadowndillies, that depends entirely on how one interprets Christ’s statement.
You can take it as “Nobody gets to heaven or to see God unless they’re a Christian”
or you can take it as “My sacrifice and resurrection are what have opened the way to eternal life” - in other words, that He came to this world for everyone - including Muslims, Jews, Buddhists or whatever.
Knowing the unconditionally loving nature of God, I take the latter view. Jesus wasn’t excluding the bulk of the world’s population from some elite club, He came to offer love to sinners and outcasts, pay the price of human sin, and invite us to closer union with God.

@Babdoc Okay, I suppose you could look at it that way also, but what about Mark 16:16 and others like it?

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Twizzlesx, only fundamentalists believe that the Bible is “the perfect word of God”.
Most theologians interpret it in the context of the culture and times in which it was written. A lot of it was not written as a literal statement of events either, but as allegory or moral tales to illustrate the perceived nature of God.
You can trace the evolution of humanity’s gradual increase in sophistication of their view of God over the millennia - starting from their primitive Old Testament view of God as a violent smiter of their enemies and punisher of wrongs, up to their more modern view of Him as a loving father, or a servant and shepherd of his people, which Jesus was instrumental in shaping.
The Bible is a wonderful collection of writings, including history, poetry, culture, regulations, genealogies, prophecies, and even humour. The story of Jonah is a lovely Jewish joke, with him sulking because God won’t destroy the Ninevans after his own reluctant preaching has made them repent!

Look up Bible for Normal People, Peter Enns, his podcast and Tik toks, you might find it useful.