A question/guidance for Christians please

[whatcanidotobelieve]

I think that really want to believe. I want to have faith. I want it so badly but I struggle to really accept the bible and its teachings. I have grown up in a religious country and a somewhat religious family, but as a scientist and seeing the hypocrisy of many christians from my hometown (in N Ireland), I struggle with the whole God/Jesus/Bible concept.

I'm not sure what I'm asking...I just wanted to see if anyone could help me?

I prefer the Gospel of Thomas

"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner as the outer, and the upper as the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male shall not be male, and the female shall not be female: . . . then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Here is a link to Bible for Normal People
https://www.tiktok.com/@theb4np?_t=8bskdXHtepe&_r=1

I also find theologian Keith Ward’s writings v helpful.

What the Bible Really Teaches: A challenge for fundamentalists: A Challenge To Fundamentalists https://amzn.eu/d/cj3or2O

Daffadowndillies, I don’t think God condemns or rejects anyone - I think
it’s rather the reverse, people reject God.
It’s rather like being given a free invite to the most wonderful everlasting party. It isn’t the host’s fault if you refuse to turn up! As the Bible says, “Ask and thou shalt receive. Knock, and the door shall be opened unto thee.”

Thank you for this thread 🙏🏼

I would join a church so you can move on with developing your faith and ask questions in real life in community with other travellers. I get that you have experienced hypocrisy in Christians which I’m sorry about. Maybe try one away from your family.

That doesn’t preclude that not all people may know this in this life even if how that may be how ultimately it is.

Attached screenshots of Keith Ward’s interpretation of this possibility.

It's not included in the Bible for a reason and it wasn't written by St Thomas. I guess you believe the Da Vinci Code nonsense about Jesus running off with Mary Magdalene too?

@Fererr -

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/article/keith-ward-taking-leave-of-god-incarnate-a-review-article/

@Babdoc
You're correct that the invitation is open to everyone, from any nation, tribe and tongue - but it also comes with conditions! If everyone and anyone who believes in "god" [whatever that might mean to them] could join in, why would Jesus have said "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" ??

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/netflix-pray-away/

What a horrible website.

@toffeecrisps How is another article written by somebody else relevant here?

Actually the reason that it’s not cannon together with many other similar gospels is simple. It’s likely that the these were the “best sellers”, plus an early decision to concentrate on Pauline doctrine. This was most likely the the result of Paul’s links to Rome, his broadening of the teachings of Jesus to non- Jews which was most useful in creating an Empire wide device of control.

Can you explain why the works of Dan Brown are linked to scholarly historical analysis regarding the formation of mainstream Christianity?

mainstream Christianity was very much man made.

The teachings of Paul are those of a man not God.

I would much rather read a Gospel in the days of Jesus than those of an erstwhile persecutor than those of those of a guilt ridden random guy who stripped away fundamental aspects of Jesus”s teachings.

Youre going to be an angry Christian aren’t you?

Everyone who reads the Bible should of course interpret it in the context it was written, consider the audience it was written for, and by whom. This is basic Bible study. This does NOT bring you to the conclusion that we can drop the bits we don't like or that seem strange to us now.

You do not know the Bible if you think the old and New Testament are speaking about different gods! He is wonderfully the same throughout the whole Bible. Gracious, loving, a righteous judge, completely holy and in charge. The OT is quoted hundreds of times in the NT and Jesus clearly interpreted scripture plainly and in a way that was consistent with a historial record.

I will take a look at some of the reading suggested, thank you.

I will also look into a church to go to. I live away from N Ireland now so I'm hoping some of the religious craziness I grew up with won't be there...

I wasn't expecting this thread to start arguments/debates about bible interpretations...

Actually if you go back to the original Hebrew it does seem to indicate the gods are v different. El (as in Elohim) the creator gods/goddesses of genesis are different to Yahweh (YHVH) of kids commonly associated with Moses, Eiheyeh (I am) etc.

In the first instance it’s useful to review the difference between the cannaite El and the YHVH of Judah.

Was the God of the Old and New Testaments the same? Well there’s various perspectives- Prima facie yes because Yeshua ben Joseph and his followers were Jews. They were adapting the Jewish religion.

If you follow the Gnostic path no they weren’t, the dislike of mainstream Christianity of this stance can be seen in the genocide of the Albegensian crusades by the Catholic church which killed up to 100,000 in medieval France.

Theres no right or wrong really. Can’t prove anything, Spirituality is a journey to find your own will and connection to the universe. No one should be criticised for the route they take as long as they are true to them themselves- that’s the true meaning I believe of “ no one comes to my father except through me” we’re all. Christ, anointed by God, we are made in his image after all. Jesus was God made man so are we.

As Blake says, “Jesus Christ is the only God and so am I and do are you.”

Great thread thank you 😊

They’re very useful debates to be had, the more you question the superficialities the closer to the truth you get I believe.

OMG12, St Paul’s teachings are based on his interviews of St Peter - the chief disciple and eye witness of Christ’s resurrection. They were both held in the Mamertine prison in Rome, awaiting execution - Peter by crucifixion, Paul by beheading, as he was a Roman citizen.
Paul’s testimony is particularly interesting as he was originally a hostile witness - he persecuted Christians, and was en route to Damascus to arrest and kill some more, when he encountered the voice of Jesus on the road.
Paul therefore is quoting “from the horse’s mouth”, not making up his own theology.
Some scholars believe that the misogynist bits in his epistles are later additions by a different author, as analysis shows a very different writing style and language structure. Paul himself authorised women setting up and running churches in Asia Minor, and we have early frescoes of him preaching alongside them.
I don’t think you can make a case for Paul making up his own version of Christianity!

Twizzlesx, I did not say the OT and NT Gods were different Gods, but that the Jews perception of Him had evolved!
If you look at the OT, they believed that God “hardened Pharaoh’s heart”, so He could inflict repeated plagues and then murder the Egyptians’ first born children, destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah with fire, and flooded the entire known world.
By the time of the NT, Jesus is telling his listeners that people who die in disasters are no less righteous than those who are spared - he cites a collapsing tower as an example. He portrays God as a loving father, not the fierce figure to whom the ancient Hebrews prayed for success in battle.

In terms of this question I have found a comment by C. S. Lewis very helpful:

We do know that no person can be saved except through Christ. We do not know that only those who know Him can be saved by Him.

Sorry if I’m contributing to a derail OP

I wasn't expecting this thread to start arguments/debates about bible interpretations...

You must be new to the philosophy and religion board op!

@TheSingingBean I fully agree.

Very good points about Saint Paul @Babdoc.

Can you explain why the works of Dan Brown are linked to scholarly historical analysis regarding the formation of mainstream Christianity?

je ne comprends pas @OMG12

Not angry at all, just bemused. The gospel of Thomas is essentially word salad written a long time after the actual disciple died. I'm sure there's better evidence out there for that but -

coldcasechristianity.com/writings/why-shouldnt-we-trust-the-non-canonical-gospels-attributed-to-thomas

Well, only a fool would state that we know conclusively when the Gospel of Thomas was written. I tend to steer clear of Christian sites when looking for scholarly evidence about Christianity. is probably a much more balanced position regarding the scholarly take on the Gospel of Thomas.

“Can you explain why the works of Dan Brown are linked to scholarly historical analysis regarding the formation of mainstream Christianity?

je ne comprends pas @OMG12 “

Because you said

”It's not included in the Bible for a reason and it wasn't written by St Thomas. I guess you believe the Da Vinci Code nonsense about Jesus running off with Mary Magdalene too?” - you seem to be drawing a link between the two. I asked you to explain why.

thats one version. however, this from Dr Justin Sledge throws a lot more light on Paul as a Jew, in the context of Judaism, esp Jewish mysticism at the time.