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LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 09:23

There was a fab episode in Rev (truly fab series) where the "Htb" crowd turned up to help. All beautiful teens selling milkshakes. It was spot on observational stuff.

LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 09:25

This one. Even the summary is good.

Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?
Sameynamey · 02/08/2023 13:08

LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 09:23

There was a fab episode in Rev (truly fab series) where the "Htb" crowd turned up to help. All beautiful teens selling milkshakes. It was spot on observational stuff.

That’s perfection, they all have to be beautiful and cringe vicar cool types.

Sameynamey · 02/08/2023 13:13

I also think a major problem with HTB staff, ordained or not is that since being very young they have done nothing other than be part of SS. They have never worked in the outside world and it’s actually a pretty wealthy, middle class bubble.

They go through the factory of SS, HTB and get their own church. I hear the older parishioners get very frustrated sometimes and I understand why.

LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 13:16

Absolutely. Yes it's a well warn path of privilidged bubble with no real knowledge of the world outside church.

And their expectations of what should be provided by church and hours etc is out of sync with those who have to work (and deal woth house repairs themselves and can't spend an hour each morning in prayer groups/etc)

Sameynamey · 02/08/2023 15:08

This is so spot on I feel
as if we know the same people!

The absolute entitlement felt to have everything done for them, paid for by others. Not a clue as to how other people struggle and have to manage their time.

I can remember the wails of how busy they were still ringing in my ears. Always, always had three holidays a year though plus church camps.
Clueless.

fairypeasant · 02/08/2023 15:10

I loved Rev. It was all beautifully observed.

MrsJamin · 02/08/2023 16:02

Inspired by this thread, I watched a couple of episodes of Rev today! Still remains one of my favourite comedies, you're right at how well observed the characters and scenarios were. The last episode was just ❤️.

JustUsHere · 02/08/2023 16:19

I’m nodding at so many things here.

I was chatting with another person who does stuff in the community (and is involved with his local church) too and we were saying how hard it is to keep things going when constantly reliant on getting funding to support our community, and how nice it’d be if the local diocese would provide some funding to enable us to do more, when they said that the “local” people running a HTB style church were getting 3 million pounds for “their salary” to lead that church. … I would like to say that I responded without swearing (but that’d be a lie!!)

I love Rev too and always refer to the Archdemons now (esp when my vicar hubby has to see them!!) 😉

Ursulathemagnificent · 02/08/2023 19:37

I concur about the HTB plant experiences...as someone who is in seniorish diocesan leadership and having to deal with a lot of the fall out, can't say much more without outing me or them... But the public facing shiney facade hides a crap load of disfunction. Churches often are disfunctional because they are made of humans...but when the PR says one thing and the experiences don't match that it's doubly wounding.

LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 19:39

Yes swooping in a whole group to impose htb culture regardless of established communities is obviously not going to be great.

User63847484848 · 02/08/2023 19:48

Very minor compared to other things but I feel so sad for a friend of mine who still attends an htb plant church (we moved away some years ago). She’s been there for years and has dedicated loads of time and energy to one of the kids groups and is brilliant at it. She’s a mum in her mid forties. A new paid children’s work leader has come along, young and inexperienced and coincidentally DiL of the husband and wife vicar team, and the work is not being well organised with rotas and stuff and my friend has been sidelined. I think probably because she’s not young and cool. No respect for her experience and long standing as a volunteer ☹️

LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 19:50

That unfortunately is how it tends to work 😔.

Similar but different with vineyards too.

All about getting the "right" people in post s that conform to the party line .

LotsOfBalloons · 02/08/2023 19:50

For the Lord of course..

BadSkiingMum · 02/08/2023 22:15

Sameynamey · 02/08/2023 13:13

I also think a major problem with HTB staff, ordained or not is that since being very young they have done nothing other than be part of SS. They have never worked in the outside world and it’s actually a pretty wealthy, middle class bubble.

They go through the factory of SS, HTB and get their own church. I hear the older parishioners get very frustrated sometimes and I understand why.

But didn't it use to be the case that for mainstream C of E ordination you had to have done something else beforehand?

I remember meeting a man on a train who was an ordinand in training. He had worked as a teacher for several years and was about to go and work in a Mission to Seamen for two years, before theological college.

Is that no longer the case or are certain church routes given a pass on that?

Sameynamey · 02/08/2023 23:39

BadSkiingMum · 02/08/2023 22:15

But didn't it use to be the case that for mainstream C of E ordination you had to have done something else beforehand?

I remember meeting a man on a train who was an ordinand in training. He had worked as a teacher for several years and was about to go and work in a Mission to Seamen for two years, before theological college.

Is that no longer the case or are certain church routes given a pass on that?

Show quote history

It’s definitely not true for the majority of SS staff and ordained clergy that I know. The group that I am thinking of, Redman, Hughes, Layzell etc. Similarly for the support staff that started as teens and are still there in some role or other.

A lot of extended family still involved that the journalists are all over regarding finances and Soul61/internships.

I don’t know about the general rules for CofE clergy having to have worked outside of the church before being ordained.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/08/2023 00:54

Someone has bumped a thread from 2023 which may be interesting with the benefit of hindsight

Soul survivor- DN's strange experience http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophyreligionn_spirituality/1837508-Soul-survivor-DNs-strange-experience

PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain · 03/08/2023 01:15

Ursulathemagnificent · 02/08/2023 19:37

I concur about the HTB plant experiences...as someone who is in seniorish diocesan leadership and having to deal with a lot of the fall out, can't say much more without outing me or them... But the public facing shiney facade hides a crap load of disfunction. Churches often are disfunctional because they are made of humans...but when the PR says one thing and the experiences don't match that it's doubly wounding.

I'm now quite suspicious if a church appears too friendly or warm. You don't want to be my friend? That's fine. Just don't act like my best friend, then treat me like crap and tell me that I was too needy and had unrealistic expectations.

I don't think the million pound salary can be right, though. No CofE employee would ever accept that as a salary. Nor do I really begrudge them holidays as it can be a very stressful job. I'm guessing the issue is to do with them having large donations to the church, but capping what they pass on to the rest of the diocese.

Sameynamey · 03/08/2023 08:07

I didn’t say I begrudged them holidays?
I pointed out the incessant complaining that I heard directly from
an ordained SS member who always (and I mean that with no exaggeration) went on three holidays a year. Plus church camps and jaunts with MP to Canada, Hawaii in earlier years.

It’s laughable that they think their job is stressful compared to their parishioners. This is what badballoons and I were saying about their middle class, privileged bubble.

Which is why I think anyone going in to clergy should work outside of the church first.

I am waiting for the journalists to uncover the financial stuff as promised by a few on Twitter. I suspect it’s going to be shocking.

elliejjtiny · 03/08/2023 09:46

Sorry to sound stupid but what is HTB?

LolaSmiles · 03/08/2023 09:47

Holy Trinity Brompton I believe.
It's one of the main player churches in the MP scene

LotsOfBalloons · 03/08/2023 10:03

Yes all that Samey!!!

Quite a few friends became vicars quite young. A think a while ago there was a move to get under 30s, and after uni people would often do a year or 2 working (perhaps in a job 9-5 while doing a ton of church work, or equivalent of a gap year) and then apply.

Having said that - one friend was in their mid 30s when they applied - did a ton of law paid jobs before amd had been moved out of rented accommodation before so no stranger to the world of work....but vicar factory changes people. He went in saying he wanted to remember the real world as its a bug bear when people didn't and we've teased him when a year out he was complaining about the 4 bed house...

elliejjtiny · 03/08/2023 10:14

@LolaSmiles Thank you, that makes sense. I'd heard of holy trinity Brompton before, just never heard it called HTB.

LotsOfBalloons · 03/08/2023 10:43

HTB is a common shortening for Holy Trinity Brompton. They have their own network of churches.

New Wine have their own network of churches. Both are huge evangelical networks made up of a very large churches in the UK.

Often university towns will have a big evangelical church affiliated to one or the other in some way.

(Nearly always led by men too...)

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