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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Marriage, sex and identity from the Christian perspective.

54 replies

DancingLeaves · 07/11/2022 16:41

In case anyone is interested in this important topic (Christian teaching on marriage, sex and identity)

www.greaterlove.org.uk/events/.

OP posts:
mostlydrinkstea · 07/11/2022 16:51

It is likely to be from a conservative Christian perspective which is fine if you realise that is what it is.

DancingLeaves · 07/11/2022 17:48

@mostlydrinkstea It is likely to be from a conservative Christian perspective which is fine if you realise that is what it is.

And your reasoning for making that statement about a conference that you haven't attended is....?

OP posts:
mostlydrinkstea · 08/11/2022 08:13

I know two of the speakers. There are a range of views on these issues. My own church is mostly socially conservative and theologically liberal which made for some interesting discussions around the Living in Love and Faith material.

CaronPoivre · 08/11/2022 08:17

I’d be sitting in the Yes camp for agreeing that early sexualisation is damaging to children.

Debate and discussion is a good thing. Most people would be surprised at the number of Catholics who are pro-choice and abhor protests outside termination clinics.

arctica · 08/11/2022 15:01

DancingLeaves · 07/11/2022 17:48

@mostlydrinkstea It is likely to be from a conservative Christian perspective which is fine if you realise that is what it is.

And your reasoning for making that statement about a conference that you haven't attended is....?

Well they do encourage people to sign a declaration stating that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 18:11

@arctica Well they do encourage people to sign a declaration stating that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

That's the Christian view, not sure what you mean by 'conservative Christian'?

OP posts:
arctica · 08/11/2022 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 08/11/2022 19:48

Most conservative christians embrace that that's what they are, not sure why you're getting bent out of shape about it? Surely you want conference attendees who are happy to be there?

Catinabeanbag · 08/11/2022 20:20

True, but it’s not obvious from the website that it is a conservative Christian conference. You have to dig a bit to find their statement of values.

MarigoldPetals · 08/11/2022 21:06

Many, many Christians are in favour same-sex marriage in a church. We have plenty of gay clergy. I think same sex marriage in church can’t come soon enough. God made some people gay after all (and he doesn’t make mistakes).

Kite22 · 08/11/2022 21:17

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 18:11

@arctica Well they do encourage people to sign a declaration stating that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

That's the Christian view, not sure what you mean by 'conservative Christian'?

No, that is the view of some Christians.

Many of us are faaaaaaar more inclusive in our theology and practice.

Bécassine · 08/11/2022 21:25

A Christian perspective. Not the Christian perspective.

Many of us Christians believe that same sex relationships can be just as loving as opposite relationships. We believe that telling children that some families can have two mummies or two daddies doesn't equal early sexualisation. And, shock horror, some of us are gay or bi or trans or lesbian or women in positions of ministry, or any of the other things conservative Christians tend to be against.

Claiming that this organisation and this conference represents the Christian faith, in its entirety, is disingenuous. You must be aware that not all Christians agree with you.

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 22:07

@Bécassine I think it does represent the Christian view

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zrr7y9q/revision/3

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SkinnyFatte · 08/11/2022 22:12

I've been following Calvin Robinson on Twitter recently, which has been a challenge because I'm a fairly liberal lefty atheist. I absolutely respect Calvin's POV, which is rooted in conservative Christianity, even if I don't agree with his stance. I have to keep asking myself if he's being deliberately provocative but he's not, he really believes what he says is right. Recently he's spoken about same sex marriage and abortion, both in a way I find uncomfortable. But he believes our country should return to the over-bearing influence of Christianity. I do not.

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 22:20

Christians will disagree with those who support same-sex marriage. But disagreement is not hatred. People disagree with each other all the time. And in a democracy, people should be free to disagree.

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picklemewalnuts · 08/11/2022 22:30

Dancing you are out of line to claim that people who accept same sex marriages are not Christian.

Boomboom22 · 08/11/2022 22:37

Apart from the 5 bishops that have come out in favour this week of changing the law on same sex marriage by CoE. Lol op.

ZenNudist · 08/11/2022 22:42

As a Catholic Christian I am called not to judge others. I am inclusive and I suppose my views are liberal but I am still a Catholic Christian.

Funnily enough my church had a mass welcoming LGBT parishioners. Perhaps you would have liked to turn up to hoik your judgy pants?

Kite22 · 08/11/2022 22:43

@Bécassine I think it does represent the Christian view

No. I am not sure if you can be that ignorant of facts, or if you are lying to yourself, or if you are just trying to be goady, but you are clearly wrong with this statement.

As has been said, there are many, many Christians who hold many, many different views about all sorts of theology.

Kite22 · 08/11/2022 22:45

Christians will disagree with those who support same-sex marriage

No, once again, you are fooling yourself here.
The sentence needs to read "there are some Christians who will disagree with those who support same-sex marriage.

Do you not read the news ?
Are you not aware there are denominations that have already agreed that two people of the same sex can get married in Churches ?
Are you not aware there are some clergy who are married to same sex partners ?

arctica · 08/11/2022 23:36

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 22:20

Christians will disagree with those who support same-sex marriage. But disagreement is not hatred. People disagree with each other all the time. And in a democracy, people should be free to disagree.

Someone should ell the church of Scotland. And the Quakers. The Methodists. The Episcopalians. And so on.

Bécassine · 08/11/2022 23:41

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 22:07

@Bécassine I think it does represent the Christian view

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zrr7y9q/revision/3

I don't think you can take a bitesize revision guide as the full truth about a deep, nuanced, and very varied theological debate. Also the methodist quote is from 1980, they've moved on since then

DancingLeaves · 08/11/2022 23:56

@picklemewalnuts Dancing you are out of line to claim that people who accept same sex marriages are not Christian.

I never said that.

OP posts:
Bécassine · 08/11/2022 23:59

the United Reformed Church, and many more, welcome LGBTQ+ people of all kinds, including in the sacraments.

OP, @DancingLeaves , Christians do not, universally, disagree with same-sex marriage. Some Christians disagree with it. Some do not. I think it's odd that you're apparently not aware of that, I suspect you're trying to be goady. Or you're one of those people who thinks that Christians who disagree with your exact restrictive theology aren't really Christians.

I agree, people should be free to disagree. Disagreement isn't hatred, sure. But trying to get everyone to abide by the religious rules you believe in is unfair, whether that's same-sex marriage or whatever else. "You can't get married because it's against my religion. Yes sure that makes sense... you can't have a cookie because I'm on a diet".
Trigger warning for spiritual abuse, queer religious trauma
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On the off-chance you genuinely believe that conservative Christian teachings about same-sex marriage and sexuality is a "disagreement" and not bigoted hate, I'm going to tell you a story. It's a story about a little girl. She grew up in the church, sang in the choir, went to Sunday school. Then she got bigger. They taught her that she must only ever marry, and have sex with, a man. But this teenager started to realise that she liked people that weren't men. She suppresed that feeling. After all, she was a good Christian girl and those feelings were a "sin". She went away to university, and joined a church there. They were kind, welcoming, friendly. She felt safe. She told some friends there that she wasn't straight, she was queer, gay, pansexual, she wasn't sure yet. They told her she was mistaken. That she couldn't be anything but straight. But the young woman knew she wasn't. So they kicked her out of the church. She felt very low. She wanted to die, wanted to kill herself because these friendly people disagreed with her so fundamentally that they stopped talking to her, stopped caring about her. They hated her for being who she was. And she couldn't do anything about it. She felt powerless, lost. Was there even a God, if the world she had grown up in could turn her away like this? Would she ever be loved?

That's the story of many, many of my queer friends. Some of us found God later. Some of us are atheist, or pagan, or humanist. Some of us found a healing church. Some did not. Some died. That's the effect your disagreement has on real people. Real children. Real teenagers. We are not some hypothetical theological debate. We are here.

picklemewalnuts · 09/11/2022 00:01

But you did!

"Christians will disagree with those who support same-sex marriage. "