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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Abortion

148 replies

Spookypig · 27/10/2022 11:14

Is anyone here British and against abortion for religious reasons? I’m just asking out of interest if I’m honest - I live abroad and many people are against abortion because of their religion, but I never encountered anyone with this view in the UK (although the majority of my friends at home are atheists). It seems like most countries have a more even divide re: abortion, but in the UK I’ve only ever met people who are very pro abortion (without limits).

OP posts:
Mommabear20 · 27/10/2022 11:24

I'm British, live in England, and am an atheist and am against abortion, but with the belief that it should be available for the people that want it. My personal beliefs are mine and I don't think they should be forced on others. I have friends who have had abortions and I can understand their reasons. I think it's much the same as religion, each person has the right to make their own choices on the matter.

TatumHigh · 27/10/2022 11:30

I was for many years. Blindly accepted that it was always wrong. Knew a few women at church who carried their babies to term knowing the baby would die soon after birth and/or put their own lives at risk continuing the pregnancy. I was in awe of them and their faith.

I got really cross with good friend mid 00s, who referred to her first very wanted child at an 8 week scan as her "baby" and aborted her third "only a bunch of cells" at 11 weeks after not bothering to use any contraception.

As I got older, I began to see the shades of grey in life. I read a few stories of desperate situations. Where a baby would make things even more desperate. Where adoption would further screw up a mother's mental health and abortion seemed the only humane way forward.

So in the main I'm still very much against abortion for religious reasons, can't bear the thought it's often used as a contraceptive method, but have grown enough now to accept its place in society.

AnorLondo · 27/10/2022 14:15

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with abortion, you don't have to have one. It's when people try to push that on everyone else that's a problem.

Marths · 28/10/2022 11:09

What country are you from?

SkylightSkylight · 28/10/2022 11:15

I'm British, but not religious, so not against abortion for religious reasons myself. I am against women having the option taken away from them due to some religious dictate.

ladywithnomanors · 28/10/2022 11:15

I’m not pro abortion , I’m pro choice. All situations are different and sit differently with me. For example an early abortion is always preferable to a later one but circumstances- anomaly scan results are often later leading to later terminations. Every woman has the right to decide for themselves.

Underanothersky · 28/10/2022 11:18

I am pro choice but I grew up in a religious community and I know lots of people who are anti abortion

HairyMcLarie · 28/10/2022 11:50

'Pro-life' is a reasonable position to take. Everyone is supportive of their decision to not have an abortion.

They have no say in anyone else's decision regarding their pregnancy

It's very simple

pointythings · 28/10/2022 15:38

I have several friends who are opposed to abortion on religious grounds, as in that they would never have one. They do not impose their beliefs on others - if they did, they would not be my friends.

jackstini · 28/10/2022 16:04

I'm a British Christian and pro-choice; other people's decisions are their business, none of mine

I do find the 'up to 24 weeks for any reason' rule very difficult personally; as I know kids who were born at 23 weeks and are now teenagers. I struggle with understanding how if you wanted to terminate, you would not do it much sooner (but not been in this situation and would not judge - I just find it very hard)

Caveat of course for medical situations which come to light after this point, for example if told baby is not compatible with life

vdbfamily · 28/10/2022 16:04

I really wish that no abortion ever had to happen. I think that life is precious and that unborn babies are the most vulnerable in society and should be protected but I also would not force these views on anyone else. I am also a Christian.

Toddlerteaplease · 28/10/2022 16:19

I'm British and also against abortion. I believe that life begins at conception. And abortion is murder. But I wouldn't judge anyone for having one for medical reasons, if the unborn baby had a condition incompatible with life. Mumsnet is very pro abortion so I will her flatbed for my views.

Toddlerteaplease · 28/10/2022 16:19

However I do not believe it should be illegal.

ShodanLives · 28/10/2022 16:22

Toddlerteaplease · 28/10/2022 16:19

However I do not believe it should be illegal.

You think it's murder - which is by definition unlawful killing - but I don't think it should be illegal?

ShodanLives · 28/10/2022 16:23

vdbfamily · 28/10/2022 16:04

I really wish that no abortion ever had to happen. I think that life is precious and that unborn babies are the most vulnerable in society and should be protected but I also would not force these views on anyone else. I am also a Christian.

You've made your desire to force your views on others perfectly clear in the past.

Toddlerteaplease · 28/10/2022 16:28

@ShodanLives the only reason is because it will cause a return to back street abortions,which are dangerous and many women have died from them.

vdbfamily · 28/10/2022 16:47

ShodanLives · 28/10/2022 16:23

You've made your desire to force your views on others perfectly clear in the past.

Maybe you could evidence that.
I have never petitioned against abortion. I would support anyone who made that choice in the same way I would support someone who chose to have a baby in difficult circumstances. OP actually asked for religious people's views on abortion here and I stated my view. I am not sure it is appropriate for you to then attack me for that.

DidILetHerDown · 28/10/2022 16:58

I am British, and anti abortion save for where's the baby is severely ill, and would have a very diminished quality of life.

I believe that life starts at conception, and that every lots of a tragedy. I don't think of an early loss or abortion as equal to the loss of a baby, or I'd be a lot more horrified at the miscarriage rate (as sad as it is), so deep down, I don't think it's the same.

But later in pregnancy, I find it baffling that the worth of a life depends on its location, rather than development etc.

I (perhaps controversially) don't understand people who think that abortion is wrong, but think it's ok for other people to have one.

That logic doesn't work for any other area in life where sometimes actions directly affect others. Take the example of slavery - a few hundred years, you likely had people who wouldn't keep slaves themselves but wouldn't criticise those that did. We would see their ambivilence as wrong now now, as it did nothing to protect the slaves, who had little chance of protecting themselves.

Either it's a life that morally should be protected, or it's not. If someone truly believes that a foetus at a particular stage, has the same right to life as any other person, all foetuses at that stage should have equal protection.

I'm not vegetarian. But if I were a vegetarian because I felt the taking an animals life was wrong, I feel it was equally wrong for someone else to do it as me. Weirdly I respect the viewpoint more of very militant vegans, than those the claim killing an animal is a terrible thing but it's fine for others to do it.

That being said, as much as I am against abortion, my beliefs that an early abortion is not the same as taking a full life, mean I think it is acceptable to abort in the first trimester, or more accurately that it is a necessary legal option to have open in society, as sad as that makes me feel.

If abortion is limited to the first trimester, free and readily available pregnancy tests should be provided, including in public toilets. They would need to be a culture shift into women routinely checking, with a similar increased emphasis on contraception. Perhaps increased funding into making contraception more reliable - less unwanted pregnancies means everyone wins. Most importantly there needs to be proper support in place so those in difficult situations can afford to have their baby.

Ps: I was very religious and then lost my faith, and then it came (partially) back again. I was most pro life when I lost my faith. If there is a God then all those aborted foetuses could be sent straight to heaven or reincarnated as another baby. There's hope for them if there's a God that's supposed to love them. Without a God that's their one shot of existing gone.

ShodanLives · 28/10/2022 17:01

vdbfamily · 28/10/2022 16:47

Maybe you could evidence that.
I have never petitioned against abortion. I would support anyone who made that choice in the same way I would support someone who chose to have a baby in difficult circumstances. OP actually asked for religious people's views on abortion here and I stated my view. I am not sure it is appropriate for you to then attack me for that.

You have said in the past that you think the legal limit should be lowered. And that you think same-sex marriage should not have been legalised which also strikes me as you forcing your views on others.

Saltywalruss · 28/10/2022 17:09

ShodanLives · 28/10/2022 17:01

You have said in the past that you think the legal limit should be lowered. And that you think same-sex marriage should not have been legalised which also strikes me as you forcing your views on others.

But in a way we all "force " our opinions on others.. Even the laws of this country are really just the opinions of those who made them.

Luredbyapomegranate · 28/10/2022 17:12

Toddlerteaplease · 28/10/2022 16:19

I'm British and also against abortion. I believe that life begins at conception. And abortion is murder. But I wouldn't judge anyone for having one for medical reasons, if the unborn baby had a condition incompatible with life. Mumsnet is very pro abortion so I will her flatbed for my views.

Are you in favour of hefty social support to pay for these babies as well? And also what will be quite an expensive adoption drive to take on those who parents won’t/can’t pay for them? Contrary to popular opinion, there are now quite a lot of babies and toddlers available to adopt (60 under 2s in the North East recently) and not enough potential adoptive parents to take them.

vdbfamily · 28/10/2022 17:16

Shodan, I have several friends in same sex marriages who come and stay at my house. I am not the bigot you like to make me out to be. There are certain things I personally would not do/ believe because I am a Christian. This does not mean I don't care about people who think differently to me. It is very unhealthy to exist in echo chambers with people who just agree with you.

pointythings · 28/10/2022 17:18

I'd like to see access to first trimester abortion be fully on demand. Beyond that we need to look at the things that are being done in thoser countries where abortion rates are the lowest - not just in terms of sex education but also in terms of social and economic policies. In a very unequal country like the UK, you're always going to have more demand for abortion.

Ultimately the choice with abortion is a stark one: ban it and watch more women die, or work on how society is structured, support women whatever choice they make and make things better. And ultimately leave the choice up to the woman and trust her to know best what her needs are.

CuriousEats · 28/10/2022 17:30

I'm a Christian. Its such a difficult, sensitive subject isn't it. Especially as single mothers struggle enough as it is, forcing them to give birth could send them over the edge.
Personally I am pro life as one of the 10 commandments is do not kill.
In my community, we generally dont have sex outside of marriage, and women whose dickhead husbands have left them are given financial support by the church, and meals etc by caring members of the community. I think even if the 10 commandments didn't hold sway, there would be very few abortions as children are born into mostly stable relationships.
Though having said that, in the case of ectopic pregnancies I believe abortion is the correct response. Having never been raped, I'm not qualified to give an opinion on that scenario. I believe if more support was offered to women - ie child benefits, maternity pay, lowering free nursery age, there would be less abortions anyway.
What I do find upsetting is hearing someone has had an abortion for no other reason than to 'get back' at their partner for splitting up. Thats a senseless loss of life.

ShodanLives · 28/10/2022 17:37

vdbfamily · 28/10/2022 17:16

Shodan, I have several friends in same sex marriages who come and stay at my house. I am not the bigot you like to make me out to be. There are certain things I personally would not do/ believe because I am a Christian. This does not mean I don't care about people who think differently to me. It is very unhealthy to exist in echo chambers with people who just agree with you.

Do the friends know you think they shouldn't have been able to get married?