Christianity basics

[Hotandbothereds]

I’m not a practicing Christian but I went to C of E primary school, regularly attended Sunday school with my grandparents as a child, so I feel like I know a lot of the Bible and always thought I had a good grasp of the religion.

But I feel like I’ve missed a huge piece of learning somewhere, can anyone explain?

I understand that in the Christian faith Jesus died to save our sins, but how? How is that connection made? How did his death make that happen?

And if he saved our sins then, do people who believe that consider themselves to be without sin?

I’m sorry if this sounds ridiculous, I genuinely feel like I somehow missed a huge important piece of learning here.

Please do not bring Revelation into it especially if you’re going to take it literally because of the book of Revelation is written in Jewish apocalyptic which is not meant to be taken literally. When you teach maths you do not start a kid on quadratic equations and when someone asks about the Christian faith you don’t start with Revelation! Please note the word ‘spiritually’ and not ‘literally’. The passage is dealing with martyrdom of Christians and the hope of their final resurrection. Therefore two places of wickedness where God’s people were rescued from were Sodom and Egypt. Of course the Lord was crucified in Jerusalem but of course the reference in Revelation to ‘the great city’ refers to Rome where his people were being martyred by Nero or Domitian. Revelation is a book of symbols not of riddles. The symbols would’ve meant a lot more to the people reading it at the time and sometimes we have to work back to their thought patterns. Hope that helps.

@GobbolinoTheWitchesCat

The link you posted from Beliefnet is written by a psychologist not a Theologian.

Posting that as an answer to OP's question is like posting something from a car mechanic in answer to a question on surgery🙄

Because I’m interested in people’s interpretations, and judging by all the replies so are plenty of others.

For someone to say that ‘the Bible does not teach that Jesus died for our sins’ when the most ancient of Christian creeds in the Bible says that ‘The Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures’ (1Cor 15:3) does imply the person either doesn’t know the Bible or can’t read!

Because I’m interested in people’s interpretations,

That doesn't explain why you want to know.

If you aren't practicing it won't affect you will it?

Are you serious about exploring the Faith or just trolling and wasting peoples' time?

If you are serious then you'd be better off speaking to your local minister/priest/elder rather than a bunch of random strangers.

You would be better spending time reading the New Testament and asking God to speak to you rather than gathering opinions from people, some perhaps who haven’t read it themselves! Just one point. Those of us who are Christians never consider ourselves to be without sin - just forgiven by grace and back in relationship with God through Jesus.
“If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭NLT‬‬
Hope this helps.

I’ve explained why throughout, so accusing me of trolling is bizarre! If you don’t want to reply here nobody is forcing you to.

But I’ll repeat myself, if you’ve not bothered to read the thread (which lots of other people are happily contributing to…).

I always felt like I had a fairly good grounding of the basics of Christianity from CofE school and church with grandparents as a child but I became curious recently that because that teaching was when I was younger, I accepted certain statements as fact, and didn’t ask the why.

So it’s interesting to hear from people who have continued in their faith on what their interpretation & further learning are.

Oh and the why, why does anyone want to learn anything? Because it’s interesting, because peoples ideas and opinions are interesting, the same for any topic of discussion.

Love. The same love you have for your children, if you have them. The same love you have for your parents and friends. It's not sexual (in my experience, though I believe some mystics have experienced it that way) so maybe not exactly the same as you have for partners.

The difference is, it's bigger. Overwhelming. This love doesn't need to 'forgive' your wrongs - this love loved you through them, isn't surprised by them and won't be going anywhere. It's the love that welcomes you home. It's beautiful and warm. You know you are safe.

The he/she part is irrelevant. God is spirit, not a sexed being.

You've asked me to describe something I said was 'indescribable'. I gave it a go. 😁

Yes point taken. Of course, as Christians we believe faith is grounded in history and facts, not just ‘beliefs’. Ie faith is not just blind.

This love doesn't need to 'forgive' your wrongs - this love loved you through them, isn't surprised by them and won't be going anywhere.

@StopStartStop
People always seem to get so caught up in and offended by the suggestion that they sin. Sin is simply something that is wrong, a mistake.

Of course realising where you went wrong helps make things right! And why would anyone actively want to repeat mistakes? It is our own pride, self importance and fear that prevents us from facing this truth.

As parents/anyone who looks after children we all find out how frustrating this can be when they are more concerned with being defensive regarding their own mistakes rather than eager to correct them. It doesn't make us love our children any less but it can be a puzzle as to how we get them to see the error of their ways sometimes. And really, in the same vein, why would God want us to be continually getting stuff wrong?

Sorry first line quoting @StopStartStop.

Hello! Just started a thread about near death experiences.
@StopStartStop I noticed you mentioned you'd had one, it would be great if you could tell us about it (no pressure):

www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/4640333-near-death-experiences

I had a feeling personal attacks might be coming my way 🙄

Thankfully, others seems to have read my posts a little more clearly.

In the meantime, I'm not sure either of you are particularly demonstrating Christian principles.

@Cillery I agree, the central message is what's important, it's very easy to get lost in the details. I was trying to explain things further for the benefit of non believers as there's so much misinformation around.

@OMG12 It's absolutely not a contradiction. The full passage in the NIV reads, "Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified." So it's not literally Sodom (which was destroyed by God long before Jesus' time) or Egypt, but symbolically representative of these to places. Sodom is used to describe it as somewhere that's morally corrupt, debauched, perverted etc and Egypt is where the Israelites were held as slaves and persecuted. John is painting a picture of what the city of Jerusalem will be like in the end times, during the Tribulation, when the two witnesses (or prophets) will be killed for preaching the gospel. Jerusalem is referred to as the 'great city'. Your explanation doesn’t make sense as we know where Jesus died (it says many times in the Bible) and he couldn't have been crucified in two different places.

• That's meant to say two witnesses! It's been a long night.

I mean places 🤦‍♀️

You’re the one accusing me of trolling, everyone else seems to have understood my questions perfectly well.

Considering the title of the thread and the fact I’ve mentioned a CofE school it’s quite clear I’m talking about Christianity, but I’ve nothing against hearing opinions from people of other faiths as well if they had something to contribute.

And I’ve had lots of very insightful answers from lots of people thank you, really no need for the eye roll.

@StopStartStop

“Love. The same love you have for your children, if you have them. The same love you have for your parents and friends. It's not sexual (in my experience, though I believe some mystics have experienced it that way) so maybe not exactly the same as you have for partners.

The difference is, it's bigger. Overwhelming. This love doesn't need to 'forgive' your wrongs - this love loved you through them, isn't surprised by them and won't be going anywhere. It's the love that welcomes you home. It's beautiful and warm. You know you are safe.”

Totally concur with StopStartStop here, Christianity is a religion of divine love. The love you have for your spouse/family is part of that, but that part is like an aeroplane journey ascending through the clouds. The love you experience from God is like reaching the heart of the universe, where there’s a powerful, healing, soul disentangling love, beauty and wonder. So merciful and loving that not only can it heal all personal traumas, hurts and griefs, but all humanitarian level cataclysms and tragedies.

I had a mystical experience a couple of years ago that totally aligned with this quote from the Brothers Karamazov…

“I believe like a child that suffering will be healed and made up for, that all the humiliating absurdity of human contradictions will vanish like a pitiful mirage, like the despicable fabrication of the impotent and infinitely small Euclidean mind of man, that in the world's finale, at the moment of eternal harmony, something so precious will come to pass that it will suffice for all hearts, for the comforting of all resentments, for the atonement of all the crimes of humanity, for all the blood that they've shed; that it will make it not only possible to forgive but to justify all that has happened.”

I feel the same thing (not to nearly the same intensity) when I attend Sunday Liturgy now.

It genuinely will be ok in the end, God’s all merciful love will be there for us… but can be found right now through prayer of the heart and an inward humbling of the ego and our personal vanities and passions.

@GobbolinoTheWitchesCat You might be interested in reading this article about the witch trials and Christianity:

bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/christianity-and-the-witch-hunt-era-17

why Is argument always be interpreted as a ‘personal attack’? I was actually responding to a link that was posted. But instead of responding to argument you accuse me of a personal attack. How do you respond to my argument?

"why Is argument always be interpreted as a ‘personal attack’? I was actually responding to a link that was posted. But instead of responding to argument you accuse me of a personal attack. How do you respond to my argument?"

@Cillery, got to say, I can see how. By saying this:

"For someone to say that ‘the Bible does not teach that Jesus died for our sins’ when the most ancient of Christian creeds in the Bible says that ‘The Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures’ (1Cor 15:3) does imply the person either doesn’t know the Bible or can’t read!"

you seem to be ridiculing the poster you are quoting. Can't read? Doesn't know the Bible? No matter the correct interpretation, (of text that works on so many levels) a person has interpreted something differently to you. By using such strong words to dismiss their argument without showing any interest in what lead them to their conclusions or indeed considering whether you might have understood them correct can cause offence as it is tantamount to dismissing them and their thought processes.

This is article is interesting.

www.verywellmind.com/be-more-open-minded-4690673

www.verywellmind.com/be-more-open-minded-4690673

I found this bit particularly interesting.😉

"Having convictions can be great, but strong belief does not negate an open mind. Being open-minded means having the ability to consider other perspectives and trying to be empatheticc_ to other people, even when you disagree with them.

Of course, open-mindedness has its limits. It does not imply that you must sympathize with every ideology. But making an effort to understand the factors that might have led to those ideas can be helpful in finding ways to persuadee_ people to change their minds."

@Cillery because implying someone cannot read is a personal attack.

When you put forward actual argument, I will respond to them

@faretheewell thank you.