Are there any Stoics here?

[ThorsBedazzler]

Does anyone else follow Stoicism here?

I'm an atheist, and happy with that. But having read Derren Brown's book "Happy" and read around stoicism, I've found a way of living that makes sense to me.

It has helped me focus less on other people, and more on what in m life i can control. I'm struggling at the moment with a run of unconnected but inconvenient events but have found it easier to bounce back because I've accepted that things happen, it isn't a cosmic plan against me, I'm not a victim.

I'm planning on reading Marcus Aurelius' Meditations (have read excerpts before) and Seneca too. It just seems a sensible way to approach life to me.

Anyone else?

So very right-

"I'm not more likely to have good times or more likely to have bad times. Stuff happens - or doesn't happen. So just deal with the stuff"

Your first point made me think of my grandmother. If I was whinging about something, she would say "What makes you so special that the wind should never blow on you?"

I know she loved me very much and had known great sorrow. Even before any real interest in Stoicism I tried to keep her words in mind when things felt tough. So yeah, what you're saying makes sense to me

I've been whinging about stuff lately and then immediately thinking "what would Marcus say?"

When I do feel self-pity, I immediately feel like such a bad Stoic. It's just not an acceptable response to life's challenges. I'm grateful to have the ghost of Marcus hovering in my peripheral vision. It's helps me stay accountable.

I love this

It's comforting to know too that there were times Marcus and the other guys knew they had fallen short, pulled themselves up and tried again

“Do not be disgusted, discouraged, or dissatisfied if you do not succeed in doing everything according to right principles; but when you have failed, return again, and be content if the greater part of what you do is consistent with man’s nature. “
– Marcus Aurelius

Brilliant @AgnestaVipers!

May I ask fellow Stoics, what aspect of Stoicism you find most challenging?

For me, it's the taking responsibility. There's really no wriggle-room. No blaming allowed - suck it up, because life can be shit and we are responsible for our actions. Or...

“Everything that happens is either endurable or not. If it’s endurable, then endure it. Stop complaining. If it’s unendurable… then stop complaining. Your destruction will mean its end as well. Just remember: you can endure anything your mind can make endurable, by treating it as in your interest to do so. In your interest, or in your nature.”
MA, Meditations

Really good question @AgnestaVipers

For me it is shouldering adversity without whining. For background, my first husband died when I was in my late 40s and it was a difficult, painful death. I remarried (very happily) but became full time carer due to his suddenly deteriorating health after a few years. There was no real alternative. We have many blessings but it is challenging and there are days when I feel like I'm going under and/or wailing "IT'S NOT FAIR!!!" at the sky. I am at times a very very bad Stoic.

Your post about Marcus in your peripheral vision both made me laugh and is something I need to remind myself of, thank you.

But why shouldn;t you shout 'It's not fair!' somwetimes? It isn't fair. And a good whine about it could be necessary pressure release. Doing it all the time is counterproductive but the occasional well-timed moan is very therapeutic.

I am suspicious of any set of rules that restricts us from being our whole selves, warts and all. We have a wide range of emotions for a reason. If you feel upset that life has been unfair, you can say so. Stoicism miught be helpful in guiding you away from getting into a powerless 'poor me' rut. But it shouldn't prevent you from ever letting off steam. That's a bit Stepford Wives imo.

I struggle with just getting up and getting in with the day. Mostly as I'm tired (up too late). I know I feel better when I do, I know that getting on with the job of being a human is just what I have to do but I don't always get up and go. Something to work on

Oh, I also don't write in a journal or reflect on my day. Because I never have and feel a bit weird about doing it.

The not complaining does help me though. I work through my upset or disappointment or jealousy or frustrations and ask "why meeeee" and ask "why not me?" What makes me so special? It helps pull me out the self pity, like I said above. But I do talk about the stuff that's upset or frustrated me with friends but I also reframe it in my mind, is it something I can control? If so, how can I make it better? I'm more positive nowadays, not in a pollyanna way but more about what I can actually do to change things.

I don't really bear much resemblance to a Stepford wife although I take your point. For me though, full acceptance of the reality of a situation is the first step in dealing with it in a more productive way. It isn't about not having emotions/feelings but controlling them, rather than being controlled by them. I also know and need to remind myself that "life" is a great deal more unfair to many others. Trying to do this (and sometimes failing) is part of Stoicism for me, it helps and I think has made me more positive and capable than I would otherwise be.

Certainly not saying I never have a whinge though and I don't beat myself up about it when I do. I also accept that others have different experiences and different ways of coping.

@CPL593H , your circumstances are exceptionally tough and goddam it, you're entitled to an "it's not fair!" from time to time. 💐

@AgnestaVipers thank you!

My husband is a bit bemused that I have a 2nd century Roman Emperor as a "life coach" (as he puts it!) so it is great to share things with people on here

Hello! How is everyone getting on?

I'm still slowly rereading "Happy" by Derren Brown and found this bit on ambition, taken from our old pal Marcus A:

"Ambition means tying your well-being to what other people say or do.

Self indulgence means tying it to the things that happen to you.

Sanity means tying it to your own actions."

I take this to mean my actions are what is important in life, not reacting to what happens and not trying to impress others.

Hi, I discovered Stoicism this summer. Over the past few years I’ve struggled with anxiety, all stemming from a need to control everything. An awful job I walked out of and then covid really kicked it all off.

Although I’m bad at many of the journaling bits, and I cannot get on with meditation, I’ve been reading Seneca and it’s really helped me. My mental health is the best it’s been for ages.

Funnily enough, I just read this the other day.
dailystoic.com/anxiety/

Ahoy, Stoics!
Just checking back in. It's been a rough few days- we are in the house buying/selling process and I am doing my best not to freak out over well.. you know... the economic situation <waves generally>

I let myself feel my feelings today. Then pulled back, what is under my control? What is not in my control? If everything goes tits up, am I going to die? Is there a plan B or C? And I am feeling if not better then a bit less freaked out.

I think meditating might help me though. Updating this thread may be am act of journaling but I still haven't properly given meditating a proper chance...

I'll also look at that link, thanks @AgnestaVipers

full acceptance of the reality of a situation is the first step in dealing with it in a more productive way. It isn't about not having emotions/feelings but controlling them, rather than being controlled by them.

@CPL593H Good point, very well put. I get what you are saying now.

Just wishing you well with the house buying process @ThorsBedazzler It would make Seneca swear!

This thread inspired me to learn about Stoicism. I've read William Irvine's Guide to the Good Life, and one of the Holliday books. I've started on Meditations. I'm trying to journal as it seems to help me sleep better, but I'm really not great at mindfulness - need to try again!
I've always believed that we shouldn't worry about things that are outwith our control, but it's been a tough couple of years and it's sometimes been trickier to remember that, in the moment.
Lots of great ideas on this thread - thanks!

Thank you for this thread, it has been very interesting. I’ve downloaded Happy as an audiobook and am looking at the daily stoic; I think it may help with my perspective on daily life. Looking forward to learning more about it .

Hi all
I hope no one minds me writing this. I think I've mentioned that I'm carer for my DH who has a number of health and mobility issues. We'd managed to stay Covid free until last Friday when we both succumbed. I still have no idea how as I hadn't been out for over a week, except we do have nurses in and this variant seems very contagious.

He was taken to hospital on Saturday and is holding on, but appears to have lost the ability to weight bear and all the mobility we've worked at him retaining, can slightly roll to one side. They don't think physio or a rehab place will be effective so the plan is for home to be nursed in bed (I'm insisting on this) Being ill/in isolation myself has made it very difficult and I can honestly say that faith and Stoicism have been tested more than I believed possible...but...I'm hanging on.

I've thought a lot about the principle of amor fati and I suppose times like this, when you want to run screaming from a fate you fear is the test. It has calmed me somewhat. I'm trying to read a little Marcus every day and meditate on how the cardinal virtues can offer guidance and support in the current situation. We aim to serve them, but they serve us, really.

We know Marcus and all the other boys in the band had really, really bad times, what with empires to run, plagues to live through, loopy rulers to survive and it is their authenticity, the fact they were not perfect people in a perfect world that I think is why they speak to us so clearly today.

I hope this makes some sense, if not, apologies (blame Covid ) (although more likely to be me)

I'm sorry to hear this, wishing you both all the best

Yes, wishing you all the best, @CPL593H . It's a tough situation.
(Loved 'the boys in the band' comment, by the way. 🙂)

@ThorsBedazzler , hope your house sale goes well, too. I have never felt so uncertain about the economy, so I empathise.

@CPL593H 🌺you have a lot on your plate. I agree with what you've said about Marcus and the rest of the gang (love the boys in the band!).

I know that stoicism has helped me a lot, I just need to remember and let it kick in earlier some times. It's definitely helping me be more realistic and worry less about things I can't control.

House sale process rumbles on. We do what we can, accepting what we cannot change etc etc.

Hello Stoics ! Came across this article in the Guardian about a book by Bridget Delaney:
www.theguardian.com/books/2022/sep/19/inject-that-stoicism-into-my-veins-10-tools-of-ancient-philosophy-that-improved-my-life

That'll be next on my library list !

While thinking about Stoic books etc - I have seen some "stoic journals" for sale, sort of thing where there is a quote per day / per week and some space for journalling. Do any of you use these - are they any good ?