Does anyone know much about the Brethren?

[carlycurly]

There are plenty of indications that our new neighbours may be part of the Brethren and I suspect that the house has been bought by the church for let to Brethren families.

I'm fascinated by such a different way of life and am really just interested in finding out some more about it all. I'm guessing I won't find any on here due to the restrictions on using internet. we've had a few interesting situations with them so far and it's certainly not the usual neighbour interaction.

Plymouth Brethren you wouldn't even notice - very caring community, quite strict on biblical beliefs, but willing to share, communicate and socialise with all

My maternal grandmother was Plymouth Brethren. She met my grandad on a bus and married him (he wasn't Plymouth Brethren) so was ostracised. This was all in the 1930s.

In the 1980s the Plymouth Brethren side of the family got back in touch with my Grandmothers's children (including my mum), after my grandmother died.

They own a local factory and are very kind employers. They are also very active in charitable giving, community work etc.

As my gran became an atheist and we were not brought up to be any religion, I don't know a great deal about religion. I think I will look into this more.

@LindyLou2020

This is all fascinating! I'd never heard of the Brethren until I read this thread. They sound a bit like a sort of British equivalent of the American Amish community? (Different practices but similar principles).

I'm an American and thought the same as to the similarities with the Amish. I've also never heard of the sect, so I don't think they have much of a presence here.

Some Jewish sects here are also quite isolationist.

My grandfather-in-law was Plymouth Brethren. No TV or internet and would go into a different room if the telly was on. He worked until his sight went in his 90s.

He ate with us and at his funeral his church put on a great spread that we all shared. He lived in a terrace house.

@LindyLou2020

This is all fascinating! I'd never heard of the Brethren until I read this thread. They sound a bit like a sort of British equivalent of the American Amish community? (Different practices but similar principles).

Me too. Have heard of Plymouth Brethren but I think only in a historical context. Woke with damned insomnia and now wide awake with astonishment that this is a current and seemingly not uncommon thing. Off to Wikipedia etc. Interesting, op.

They get very unflattering press in Australia & New Zealand due to shady business dealings and child sexual abuse. They harrass, stalk & put surveillance on ex-members. Certainly not a benign and friendly group, particularly for women & children.

@carlycurly

I'm thinking exclusive brethren from a quick google search. They are definitely insular. The hours the dcs spend in the garden would correlate with them having no tv or similar.

I've noticed that there are some very large sticks propped up against their porch. Too big to be for walking. Is this in any way significant?

Are the large sticks ‘peace poles?’ Perhaps. This is seemingly a Brethren thing. Google image search ‘brethren peace poles’.

This thread has also possibly explained some things I’ve seen in Chennai India and south of there.

There are different types.

Exclusive brethren are more than likely what you are speaking about...visibly dressed 'modest', long hair, not allowed to eat with/interact with others.

I grew up Brethren in Scotland and each meeting (church but that word is rarely used) has its own elders and way of doing things. So it would be quite different to baptist or church of Scotland which would have a head body. There are different levels of strictness or tightness in different meetings and only certain ones would associate with each other. In the more Conservative churches women would often wear skirts and have longer hair. Their hair would be covered in church services by a beret or a scarf and women would never take part in church services. They would be baptised by immersion usually in late childhood or teenage years and then come into fellowship at their local assembly or meeting (which would be like becoming a church member). Childhood was a lot of time spent in church services (about 6 hours on a Sunday, often 2-3 hours on a Saturday and 2 hours at a midweek evening service, then there would be at least one kids club or youth club). As a result of that most of your friends would be in church and they would appear quite set apart. We would never have been allowed to do any sports that would have games on a Sunday or see school friends on a Sunday. Some of my friends were removed from sex education and RE classes at school and I do know a fair amount of people who homeschool. Women would often be at home with the children but aren't necessarily discouraged from having careers, the majority would have a degree but their most important calling is to raise their family. My parents were a bit more on the Liberal side but I have friends who didn't have tvs or weren't allowed to read harry potter. Alcohol would be very frowned upon, my parents never drank and while I was in their house I wouldn't have been allowed to go out out.

@carlycurly

There are plenty of indications that our new neighbours may be part of the Brethren and I suspect that the house has been bought by the church for let to Brethren families.

I'm fascinated by such a different way of life and am really just interested in finding out some more about it all. I'm guessing I won't find any on here due to the restrictions on using internet. we've had a few interesting situations with them so far and it's certainly not the usual neighbour interaction.

What makes you think they are Brethren?

I used to work for the PBCC.

There’s a lot of Plymouth brethren near me. You can spot the women by their long hair, head scarf/wide alice band or big flower in their hair and long denim skirts.

My mum very briefly worked as a teacher at the Plymouth brethren school in town. She left after about a week as said the set up was horrific. The staff who were brethren wouldn’t talk to the non brethren staff, the kids were rude and openly hostile, the standard of teaching and curriculum was really poor.

I’ve come across quite a few due to work, always big houses, big families, big people carrier cars. I believe they pool their money as a community and help each other buy houses. They don’t believe in electronic entertainment so no TVs, no radios, etc. Houses have to be detached. The women normally stay in bed for 14 days after having a baby. Whenever I’ve had any dealings with them they’ve been perfectly pleasant.

@carlycurly

We are in detached houses, yes. Next door is 5 bed, 3 storey and an 18 year old appeared to decide to buy it after a single 10 minute viewing. Didn't return until the sale went through. Then sat empty for months until this family literally arrived in the middle of the night.

I remember the former neighbours commenting that the whole sale was peculiar. They thought it was going to fall through until exchange due to the number of unusual questions, especially about the drainage. Which I have also now read is a thing!

My ILs had brethren (I’m not sure which faction) move in next to them. Same situation; a very young couple with young kids buying a very expensive detached house. After some digging it turns out several houses on the road were brethren owned and the brethren community was helping the very young couples to buy the expensive places. Their community would show up to help with building works and all that sort of good stuff. However they’ve been hard to live next door to for the ILs. They’ve had multiple disputes over the building works and the brethren folks refuse to compromise or really even discuss. The ILs are generally living under terrible stress from it and are reluctant to move as they’ve been there 40years and have their own community.

I guess some neighbours are just dicks though, slightly concerning religion or no…

One of my friends at primary was from the Brethren Community. She had 5 siblings, most older than her so not at primary school with us, but one 3 years younger. She wasn't allowed to cut her hair and had to wear a scarf over it. She never took part in the school photos either - we had a whole class one every year and she was always watching from behind the photographer. She went home for lunch and didn't do PE because of the changing in the classroom rule. She dressed modestly (long sleeves and long skirts/pinafore dresses), we didn't have a school uniform.

The other thing I remember is that she had no telly, wasn't allowed to come to our birthday parties or houses for tea, and we were never invited to her house. It seemed restrictive, but she was cheerful and very gentle.

@CraftyGin everything is exactly as the poster above describes. All details match. We noticed a peculiarity about them from day one which is far more understandable in light of this. I've ordered the book mentioned upthread - thank you.

I do sense that their dcs notice my dcs, who are a year or two older and past the age of popping in and out of neighbours gardens to play. I do wonder how we'd have navigated that if interaction isn't allowed and the dcs all wanted to make friends.

Their eldest comes to ask for the ball back occasionally and seems really sweet and polite. The middle dc has some issues - epic tantrums past the usual age for them, uses some eyebrow raising language and I wonder how they are going to keep them conforming as they hit their teens. They seem incredibly angry all the time.

It must be so hard to shield them from the world. They literally spend most of the time in a relatively small back garden or house with all blinds closed.

Being honest, there is a tiny part of me that wants to liberate them, especially the women, because it all looks miserable. But I do also recognise that how they choose to live is absolutely none of my business!

My family left the Exclusive brethren when I was a baby. Rebecca Stott is a relative so my family appear in her book.
I will say more later and have engaged in previous threads on the subject but currently am running late for Church!

Oh wow, I'd be fascinated to hear. I will start the book today if I have chance.

My experience with the Brethen was unusual as it was on their terms and they had to talk to us as we worked with them. It was very odd. They were strict exclusive Brethen.

It was a rare opportunity to learn about them from some of them. Some of them were more willing to do this than others but were cautious about being snitched on too.

I definitely think this is true:
I think many people inside are good, decent folk. But the leadership are intensely money-driven. Very controlling.

They had to give their wages to the group and couldn't keep what they earnt and they had unusual tax arrangements (one of the other outsiders was the accountant and I was very friendly with her).

When I started working there they had computers but had only just started using email and had the strictest Internet control I've ever come across. They had only used fax previously until very recently. It was 2013.

They couldn't buy things for themselves. If they wanted anything they had to ask the community who would then provide it. But this also included having a house. Of course this made it harder to leave.

I got the impression there was a strict social hierarchy so if you were viewed well by the community you got better stuff - including jobs.

It was safe and secure in that they looked after their own including their fecking useless.

There was one guy who worked with me who fell into this. He had the worst attitude and would purposefully ignore everything I said because I was a female outsider. That meant I spent loads of time apologising to customers and sorting out his mess. Apparently he was viewed as fecking useless by his community too and although they were trying to find him another job it seemed that the business owners were reluctant to take him on. (Can't think why).

But yeah the couple i mention up thread were definitely more open and I did really feel for them as they seemed trapped.

I've always hoped they left.

I worked as a teacher in one of their schools.

They didn't look much different from other kids, apart from girls having long hair and wearing large bows. The boys had very groomed hair too. Their uniform was very standard, and the same at all their schools worldwide.

I found the boys to be really naughty, but the girls were lovely.

The mums were lovely and very happy to chat (they drove the minibuses so you spent a lot of time with them on trips).

They didn't eat with us, but made lots of delicious food for us. The men were pleasant but more distant.

I think if you saw one Brethren family, you wouldn't particularly notice, but when there's a group of them you can really tell.

I wouldn't say the women or girls wore long skirts, but there was a certain 'uniform' about them.

They look after each other with their various family business and obviously do well. I imaging interacting with them will be very pleasant .

As far as meeting houses are concerned, there might be maybe six families that attend one MH, so very small. The men will take in turn to preach and the women announce the hymn numbers. They go everyday - several hours on Sundays, and then in the early evening.

At school, gossip got round the families very quickly as the families saw each other every day. I had to be on my toes not to teach anything that could be offensive!

They are not like the Amish. They want their children to be educated by professional teachers to beyond L3, especially in business/accounting.

They love technology - especially computers (but they have the same filters at home as they do at school). They don't have live feeds of current news - no TV, radio or newspapers, but that doesn't mean they are ill-informed.

Dh worked for a brethren owned company and they were awful employers. Our eldest had a serious accident and I had to text DH updates after his surgery do he could go into the loo and discretely turn his phone on to read them. He was supposed to leave his mobile in the car while he was at work. No email, no Internet but his job was meant to be finding new sales leads. He lasted 6 weeks before jacking it in. The bosses ate separately from non brethren staff but also got annoyed if people weren't prepared to work through their lunch or into the evening as unpaid overtime.

I worked for 2 years in an exclusive brethren school and I still do home visits to some families.

Everything you have heard is true. We non brethren are referred to as worldlies.

No media (they are allowed a handful of films and songs pre approved by the church)...

Women wear subservience head accessories ...

No smoking ...

No eating in front of worldlies ...

Women may not work after marriage and never be in charge ...

Men cant wear shorts or ties ...

No blasphemy ...

No social media ...

Lots of inbreeding ...

No pets ...

No discussion of evolution in school ...

I could go on and on and on. I stopped working there because they then removed music from all brethren schools....

Not all rules are tightly observed behind closed doors but if they are caught breaking the important ones shit gets serious pretty quickly.

No discussion of evolution in school

It's on the Science GCSE specification.

@CraftyGin

No discussion of evolution in school

It's on the Science GCSE specification.

It may well be now - at the time myself and another teacher got a hard time from the kids and parents upon mentioning it in class! This is many years ago.

They are now allowed to use zoom post pandemic so a lot of things may have improved. Do you teach in a brethren school?

@Mischance

How sad that religion is so divisive - what can be the problem with children eating with their peers?

Its seen as "breaking bread" with non believers.

A colleague of mine was dismissed from his peripatetic post at exclusive brethren school for this. I think he was more than happy to leave.

The language I've heard from next door's garden is worse than anything my dcs have ever come out with in my earshot. At that point the child was hauled inside, there was a lot of screaming and he banged the window open and closed repeatedly.

I know children kick off but this was a bit disturbing. The eldest seems to try and calm the situation. The youngest usually has a dummy. (They are likely 7 or 8).

I think I'm a bit concerned that we will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of this now, as the house is likely to be occupied by similar families even if these people leave.

The landlord has notified that he wants to build an extension, which is also concerning in light of the experience of other posters. It would involve extending a reception room, which makes me wonder if they intend using it as a meeting house.

They are now allowed to use zoom post pandemic so a lot of things may have improved. Do you teach in a brethren school?

I used to - I left 6 years ago.

They do not want to miss any parts of the Science specification as they want their children to reach their potential and not be disadvantaged.

We had music in our school, and many students did peri lessons. They were very good musicians and performed in their meeting houses.

One key thing that is missing is English Literature - it is difficult to find set texts that are without smut.

@carlycurly

The language I've heard from next door's garden is worse than anything my dcs have ever come out with in my earshot. At that point the child was hauled inside, there was a lot of screaming and he banged the window open and closed repeatedly.

I know children kick off but this was a bit disturbing. The eldest seems to try and calm the situation. The youngest usually has a dummy. (They are likely 7 or 8).

Maybe he has SEN?