Advice from other Christians: conversations about homosexuality

[bathsh3ba]

I work in a very 'woke' environment and it feels like as soon as I reference being Christian, I am jumped on with criticisms of Christianity being homophobic. I never proselytise or evangelise at work, I guess some of my views come across as different but I only give them if directly asked. By references to being Christian I mean e.g mentioning I had been to church or Bible Group when asked about my evening/weekend.

Does anyone else get this and what do you say? I usually say Christians have very different views on it but I believe God has bigger things to worry about and Jesus told us to love everyone, which is what I try to do. But they keep on about what I think and the honest answer is I don't know, there are so many viewpoints that I tend to just leave it to God and try to be nice to everyone!

I would ask them if they would be questioning a Muslim colleague in the same way.

I wouldn't be trying to explain myself to a bunch of wokesters, who the fuck do they think they are?

I'd be tempted to make a complaint to HR of harassment due to religious belief.

How odd of your colleagues. I am not religious and one of my colleagues is very religious and I would never dream of questioning him in such a way. We do occasionally talk about religion but just in the way we would talk about any interests.

I've never had it in any other job, hence why I attribute it to the 'wokeness'. We have a young man in the office who makes the most misogynistic comments and noone challenges him but I keep quiet and do get challenged on things I haven't even said!

Just say your not homophobic. Is this about the recent c of e thing maybe?

I hear you. I work in a scientific academic environment and it appears that religion is fair game to pillory.

I actually suspect if Jesus was around today he would be friends with gay people and transgender much as he associated himself with the 'outcasts' (eg prostitutes, Samaritans, tax collectors) of his day.

Boris, that's exactly what I think. He taught to treat everyone with compassion, regardless of who they are.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I personally feel one can add straight and gay to that verse. For God is love and love conquers all. There are many Christians who feel the same as I do

I imagine there are many christians who are not homophobic.

Trouble is that the bible can be used to support homophobia.

MY sister and mother are both christian- different types- and both their churches have gay " conversion" clinics, set up to cure homosexuals.

So while many christians defend their right to "religious freedom" the public will see the whole organisation as anti gay.
Look at waht is happening in Australia at the monment for instance- the prime minister set to bring new laws to allow religious ( christian really) the right of " religious freedom.
This will give the right to deny treatment or service to people that don't fit the ill.
So hotel owners will be able to refuse to accommodate gay couples for instance.
I'm sorry but you have to be blinkered not to see the homophobic feelings within the christian church.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/14/religious-discrimination-bill-what-will-australians-be-allowed-to-say-and-do-if-it-passes.

I'd suggest they read the bible and find out it's not as homophobic as people think it is. Or suggest they go to their local church and find out.

If they're referring to the recent 'pastoral statement' from the House of Bishops (came out last week), the church isn't just against gay sex, it's against any sort of sex outside of straight marriage, which includes quite a large portion of the country......

I'd also start calling out the guy who makes the misogynistic comments as well - funny how religion's fair game for criticism (christianity in particular) but nothing else is.

I'm a Christian and also gay, and I'm sure people wonder how I can be both, given the church's historical attitudes on the subject, but if people ask, I will tell them. Do they seem as if they're genuinely interested in your faith, or only wanting to criticise?

Pope Francis famously said "Who am I to judge?’ in a response to a question about gay priests. And, he told his friend Juan Carlos Cruz, a gay man and abuse victim, ‘God made you like this.’” short and to the point.

Id stay out of these discussions because they spiral into views on the bible and it just gets complicated when people just want to have a pop.

Im surprised anyone said anything. My colleagues (friends) who are gay or woke haven't seen fit to tear into me about this.

You could let your colleagues - and Speakout know that there is no such thing as "The Church".
There are so many different denominations and then so many different individual Churches within each denomination and again so many different Christians (and those who aren't sure) within each different Church.

If you feel uncomfortable and 'picked on' at work then raise that through the proper channels, along with the complaint you have about your colleague's attitude.

BackforGood

i am sorry but you may think there is no such thing as "the church"- but we are talking about christianity - one bible, one jesus, one god.
The fact that you have so much discord within your house is hardly the fault of the non believer.
We as outsiders see the christians as christian.

Okay......
Do you also think it is okay to say
"All Muslims think......"
or
"Everyone who is in the armed forces thinks......"
or
"All women think........"
or
"Every Welsh person thinks.........."
etc
etc
etc ?

No one should be challenging you in work about this (given that you are not lecturing them) and you should tell them where to stick it. If they persist complain to HR.

I'm an atheist with a very low opinion of the church so if you had a debate with me I'd be making points about homophobia etc, but there's a time and place.

BackforGood

A bad analogy.

Ascribing to a religion can't be equated to being Welsh.

Religion is a mode of thought, belief and conduct.

Being Welsh is not.

It is legitimate to hold a religious adherant to question over doctrine- even the "trickier" topics.

Being religious is a choice. Being a woman is not a choice.

If someone- Welsh, female or otherwise was a member of a political party then I imagine they have ideals and values which align themselves to the party line. A choice.

On the other hand THIS is a forum and someone said "it's not as homophobic as people think it is"

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I'd call telling people to kill them just a tiny, weeny bit homophobic wouldn't you?

@LastTrainEast was waiting for someone to quote Leviticus. Yes of course some ancient Israelite speaks for all Christians everywhere and we all have to think exactly the same thing now as 2500 years ago.🙄 Doesn't Leviticus also criticise wearing mixed fabrics and tattoos? I love it when atheists try and read the bible literally.

Its inane to think all Christians think the same thing and we all read the bible exactly the same way.

Im loving the political party analogy speakout. That makes zero sense applied to broad religious categories. It doesn't even make sense applied to our main political parties.

But a good reminder to pray for Christian unity (again) thanks. Let there be more that unites than divides us.

I think quoting scripture is a bit since the bible probably says more about poly blends and prawns than being gay.

You can blame the wokesters if you want. I'd sooner blame the people calling themselves Christian who are homophobic and do ascribe it to their faith. They're the actual arseholes giving christians a bad name. Not some irritating man-bun brocialists.

I love it when atheists try and read the bible literally.

Many christians take the bible literally.

we all have to think exactly the same thing now as 2500 years ago.🙄

So we can ignore the 10 commandments? Which bits can be thrown out? And who decides?

ZenNudist and MrsTerryPratchett as you saw I am in full support of the OP that she should not be abused in the workplace. I commented to make it clear that atheists don't think that kind of thing is acceptable either.

However I saw that denial that Christianity is homophobic and had to comment again.

ZenNudist The Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament too. Also Adam & Eve without which you don't have original sin. Were they ancient Israelite nonsense?

Yes Leviticus does say other things too, but when some Christians want to abuse gay people they remember that Leviticus IS the bible after all and it's no use pretending otherwise.

"Im loving the political party analogy speakout" was this to someone else? I have no idea what that meant.

Ah never mind I get that last bit now.

I completely agree with @Borris
I think the main message in the bible is to love your neighbour, be kind to everyone- but particularly to those who need help. Jesus went out of his way to befriend the outcasts, to show we are all the same.
I can't personally understand how you can be Christian and not follow Christs example.

Being a Christian means that you believe in the teachings of Jesus and believe he was/is God. That is literally what being a Christian means.

As far as I know, Jesus never said anything against homosexuality in any way, shape, or form. (In fact he seemed notably uninterested in sexual morality in general.)

There are various churches with differing interpretations of Jesus's teachings and different interpretations of the writings in the Bible. Some churches (the vast majority, I think) are homophobic to some degree; others are not. Within each of those churches there are many shades of opinion among its members.

If you're a Christian then you may or may not belong to a church. If you do, you may or may not agree with its stance on homosexuality (or indeed anything else).