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Philosophy/religion

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If you're religious, how do you explain 'bad things happening to good people'?

120 replies

PinkPugInShades · 24/09/2019 08:58

Not in anyway intending to be goady but I'm really curious about this subject at the moment.

I was brought up in the church of England and my family are still religious. I stopped when I was a teen and haven't been back since but it's still always there in the background so I wouldn't even kno what I believed anymore.

I've suffered a lot recently. Pregnancy loss at varying stages and am in a lot of pain.

I realise I'm probably looking for someone/something to blame but I feel such a hatred for 'god' if he's out there at the moment that I find myself screaming at him sometimes when I'm alone.

If you believe, why would he let this happen? I'm sick of hearing that it's his plan for me. Why would he want this to be my plan?

OP posts:
kalinkafoxtrot45 · 24/10/2019 05:22

This is one of the reasons I do not believe in any kind of god. Religion is supposed to bring comfort but it seems to me that for many people it is an extra burden.

YobaOljazUwaque · 24/10/2019 06:44

I see it as this:
Yes you are loved, deeply and truly, by God who cares for you personally as an individual. Yes he is aware of and shares the pain you feel.
However, you are not especially more loved and cherished than any of the other 7 billion people on the planet, nor the billions who have gone before or are yet to come. Nor is your pain especially worse than anyone else's.

For if the world was such, and if God was such, that all these deeply painful things were eliminated, we would not be who we are. Cradled and cocooned in a utopia where nothing really bad could ever happen as the magic sky fairy would sort it out, with no disease for doctors to find cures for, no injustices to campaign against, no free will obviously because free will leads to conflict which sooner or later leads to fighting and pain. I think if magically transported to such a utopia you might soon see that such bliss was insipid, with a limited palate of emotional colour having had all the dark shades removed, and less opportunity to thrive because all the tragedies and outrages that spur people to build something better have been taken.

Or was it that you just wanted your pain taken away, and all the other people on the planet to keep having to deal with theirs? Even though God loves them just as much?

Life is not a journey - there isn't a correct destination to reach. The worth of each life is not measured in its duration, or in how much or how little pain each life entailed. Life is an artwork. Imagine yourself in an art gallery where every life there ever has been or will be is displayed. Some of the works are a tiny, brief note but yet have an individual complexity that makes them valid. Some of the works are ordered, well regulated and seem charming, others are dark and disturbing.

But God isn't a dispassionate observer of all this pain. God came right into the middle of this painful, messy and chaotic world and lived a life too, with its own pain and beauty, in order to integrate God's self with the enormous and glorious tapestry which is being created with all these artworks being brought together as one glorious creation called humanity.

Grobagsforever · 24/10/2019 07:05

@PinkPugInShades sorry for your losses.

My DH died when I was pregnant with my second daughter. This is one of the reasons I find it essential to bring my daughters up atheist. They are far too logical to accept the notion of a 'good' god who would let this happen. When DD1 was 6/7 she'd be in tears over Easter teaching, her teachers telling her God would bring Jesus back but not her Daddy. Now DD1 is older she has withdrawn herself from religious teachings at school but still gets extremely frustrated at grown up telling her there is a 'good' God who let this and all the other suffering happen.

She also gets mad that this all powerful being is male but that's another story!

babba2014 · 24/10/2019 07:39

In Islam we have a lot of information about bad things happening.
The first thing we have to always remember is that this world is temporary and it's the next life that we are working for. To get into Paradise we first need to please Allah (translated at The One God). Through His pleasure with us, we can attain Paradise.
He created us so that we may worship Him. Not just us but the jinns too. We have been sent Prophets and Messengers to show us how to do that and information revealed in His books.
This life is one huge test. Everything we do, from the moment we wake up to when we go to sleep, can be worship. It's all based on intention. For example, when we wake up we have a prayer in Arabic which means, Praise be to Allah who gave us life after death (as the state of sleeping is the closest thing to death) and to Him is our return.
We are constantly reminded of God and that life is temporary.
If someone passed away we say a verse of the Qur'an in Arabic which means, Verily we belong to Allah and to Him is our return.
When we sleep we say, Oh Allah, in your name I die and in your name do I live.
We are taught a lot about patience. Patience patience patience. Through tough times, at all times. And we have hadiths (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) which cover every aspect so we have something to comfort us. For example, if a mother loses a baby in pregnancy, we are told that on the day of judgement, when everyone will be worried about their state and whether they've done enough, when the sun will be just above our heads and the shade will be granted only to certain people, when a mother will turn away from her son, a friend will turn away from a friend, a sibling will turn away from their sibling (as everyone will be so worried about their own deeds and avoiding going to hellfire), the foetus will come and hold the mother's hand and take her all the way to Paradise.

When our eternal abode and Allah's pleasure is our aim, it really helps to know that even the worst of situations means something. We don't just think about the present and now but the hereafter. Yes the time will be hard but patience is beautiful. It's fine to cry, but wailing and becoming despondent in Allah's mercy is not encouraged.

If a mother loses a child, we have the following hadith to remember what will come out of it:

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“When the child of a person dies, Allaah says to His angels: ‘You have taken the soul of the child of My slave?’

They say: ‘Yes.’

He says: ‘You have taken the apple of his eye?’

They say: ‘Yes.’

He says: ‘What did My slave say?’

They say: ‘He praised You and said innaa Lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji’oon.’ - To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return.

And Allaah says: ‘Build for My slave a house in Paradise, and call it the house of praise.’”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1021

Also not forgetting that we will be reunited with our child in Paradise. In Paradise everyone will be the same age though, no one will have any ill feeling towards anyobe else as it will be as if we all share the same heart.

We also are reminded to look at people worse off than us. This is something I didn't do for a few years and I felt much worse. Now that I am aware of those less fortunate than me, I can put things into perspective and give myself a reality check quickly. For example, I am aware of the huge amount of people in war torn countries, innocent people who have had to flee from their homes and live under olive trees or open land. No food or water until a charity may notice them. They are having to give birth in these conditions and this choice is not their own choice but many have lost children when their house was bombed or perhaps the child's limb has had to be cut off as the hospitals are all bombed so in the UK, their limb could have been saved but where they are, in order to prevent further damage to the body, they e had to just remove an arm or leg altogether.
I also think of the countries that have heard earthquakes and tsunamis and lose everything. Or even the countries where people are born into poverty. Or the countries where they are in so much poverty that young girls are forced into prostitution with no way out. To me I feel like there is so much more to be thankful for when doing this that my own loss or pain, despite being hard no doubt, could be much much worse. Imagine being in the above situation and with the loss too. It seems as if those worse off than us have more to thank about despite their situation and this may be why the poor will be the first to enter Paradise.

Every difficult situation we think, this is a test, how am I going to get through it? Will I be patient and believe in Allah's will for me or will I fall to listen to the whispers of Satan? As that's when he pounces on a person. We remember that this world is much bigger than us. We didn't create it. In a hadith we are told that this world is a heaven for a disbeliever and hell for s believer. This makes a lot of sense. If we don't believe, we have no rules set by Allah and we can do whatever we want. Believing means we come to a reality that this world will have a lot of rubbish things happening but the comfort is that there is an everlasting hereafter where no bad things will happen, if we just believe and get through this massive test which is called life.
When bad things happen to us, it also means our sins get erased. And on the day of judgement out good and bad deeds will be weighed. All the things we do in this world are recorded by two angels, one on our right shoulder, one by our left shoulder. The good and bad deeds have a book each. If we receive the book in our right hand on the day of judgement, it means we did well and we will be joyous. All of this is recorded in the Qur'an. The ones who receive it in the left will be so full of regret. If only I could go back to the earth and redo my test!
We all know that feeling already!

One last point I will mention is we are reminded to look at the lives of the prophets. We know the Bible is not in its original form that it was revealed in, Google if you want to check but this is told by Christians themselves but we as Muslims do believe a book called the gospels was revealed to Jesus peace be upon him. The new Bible mentions prophets were guilty of incest and also God not being fair by forgiving Aaron and not his people. As Muslims we do not believe that. We are told prophets were free from sin and were examples to follow. They did not commit such acts nor was God unfair (Aaron did not worship the calf and it was a man who was called Samiri who made it but the people were all given a chance for forgiveness by God after they regretted their ways). So to look up to a prophet they need to be free from such crimes. Anyway the point is that the prophets didn't have it easy either. Joseph peace be upon him was thrown in a well by his own brothers, his flesh and blood, away from his father who loved him. He was alone, and for many years was alone even when he was moved by travellers and then the wife of the governor tried to reduce him as he is the most beautiful man created, but he refused to accept her advance and ran away from her. She accused him and he was proven to be innocent but then went to jail as he preferred jail to be around her and her advances. He spent many years in jail. I don't think that would be a life any of us would want to live either but even through all of that he was patient and he knew it was from God and that whatever hell on earth he faces, it's the next life that is Paradise. He used his time even in the jail to call people to the worship of One God whereas someone like me would probably just be miserable and pity myself unless I did look at role models and examples to follow in character and in action.
The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, his father passed away before he was born. His mother passed away when he was 6 years old. When he received the revelation of the Qur'an bit by bit via Angel Gabriel and was given the instruction to call people to One God, he and the small amount of followers were banished to some mountains and all food aid was cut off from them to the extent that the would eat dry leaves. Because of this his dear wife Khafijah passed away. He was then a single father of five daughters. Could life get any worse? He was offered to be a king, to have all the riches and women he wanted by the disbelievers if he simply gave up his message of calling to one God but he refused as he knew that was not what life is about. This life is so short it is not worth exchanging the life of the hereafter for this temporary life. He also lost two sons, one as a baby and one as a three year old who he loved to play with. I can't imagine what it would feel like to lose my three year old but despite all of this he continued and taught us manners, how to live this life, how to keep going all through Allah's revelations.

Moses peace be upon him was also separated from his mother and brought up by the Pharaoh who ordered women and children to be killed mercilessly. He watched all of this. Pharaoh killed his own wife. He was then banished from the land by Pharoah but eventually after difficulty comes ease and as Muslims we are promised that by Allah.

Remember, it is okay to grieve and be sad and cry. To talk and to remember. But then there gets to a point where we have to remember those worse off than us, to look at the lives of the prophets was examples of people who did not have it easy at all and then to move on from that and refocus on the real goal which is the hereafter and all that loss and difficulty that was on us in this world will be rewarded with much more in the hereafter.

babba2014 · 24/10/2019 07:46

Grobagsforever I am so sorry for your loss. That must have been so hard and still the challenges you continue to face.
We don't believe Jesus peace be upon him died but we also don't believe he is God. We believe He was raised to heaven when they tried to kill him. They did kill someone but not Jesus as God made the man who came to get him look like Jesus hence he was protesting I'm not Jesus! But who will believe that? They just thought he was crazy.
He will return when the chaos is so bad in this world that he will complete his mission. Hence Jesus is a man and God is not a man. Nor did he beget a son. We also can't imagine what God looks like as He is beyond our comprehension and we can't look at the sun with our own eyes so how will we view God when even just His light is so powerful. We would not be able to bare it here. However in Paradise the greatest gift we will get after being given whatever we ask for is being able to see God.

We not not believe He is a man either. The term we use in Arabic is Allah. That's why Allah does not translate as God in English. Allah is such a word/name that you can't make it male or female (Godess), you can't make it a plural (Gods). It's just The One and Only God.
If you say IT in English, that sounds quite disrespectful which is why from old language people used to refer to God as He. But it is better to say Allah as it cannot be manipulated in any way. Maybe that answers some of the frustrations with the aspect of God.

Redwinestillfine · 24/10/2019 07:47

I don't think religion means that only good things happen to believers or that it says that anywhere at all.

Woollycardi · 24/10/2019 19:15

OP, I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. I would say, try not to judge yourself for feeling angry. Anger is a very human response and it's completely ok to feel that when you feel so out of control. I can't help you on what the role of religion is here, but just wanted to say that there is no 'right' amount of anger. We're all angry in our own way. It's part of the human condition.

Lifecraft · 24/10/2019 21:14

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Lifecraft · 24/10/2019 21:16

He created us so that we may worship Him.

Insecurity issues I assume?

GettingPdOff · 25/10/2019 20:52

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GettingPdOff · 25/10/2019 20:52

Lifecraft not lovecraft

KRRA · 31/10/2019 19:52

It's so sad to hear of your losses and ongoing pain and I hope things improve for you. I have a few friends that believe in God and it gives them comfort so if it helps then that is their choice. I'm not religious at all - the reason - not one single person can prove and I mean physically prove the existence of God or any type of God. To say 'he's all around' as proof of his or existence is ridiculous. It's nothing more than brain washing and if someone can for once prove beyond all reasonable doubt that any God exists then I'll be the first to listen. We make our own path in life and hopefully it will be a happy and healthy one. If there is a God then he's made some pretty horrendous mistakes, how can we have a world with peopophiles, cruelty actuaĺly too many things to mention but believe there is some invisible, untouchable thing that will make it all better. If your family believes then the likelihood is the children will too and so it continues. Religion on the other hand has caused some major issues. We will as humans, never agree on everything including Gods but that's what makes us human.

lexiepuppy · 04/11/2019 00:48

I have a friend who explains it in spiritual terms. If you believe that we have chosen to incarnate on earth and have chosen our parents and all our life experiences good and bad.
We are here to love and to learn, if life was all glitter and unicorns we would learn nothing.
My friend says that life is like a computer game, the easiest level we deal with very little bad things, but as we go up the levels we get more and more bad things happen to us and that is the way we keep evolving.
When we reach the top level, we are battle weary and scared, but we have won, we have learnt our lessons through pain.

I literally go through life thinking, okay Universe, What are you going to chuck at me today?
Then I think that if I keep going through, hurtful, painful crazy inducing situations, I will hopefully learn all I need to and then when i die, I never have to return here!Grin

TemporaryPermanent · 04/11/2019 01:23

'It’s actually much more comforting to think these acts were just part of life (which isn’t fair) than to believe in any god(s) who see bad happening and do nothing to prevent it. No prayers saved my babies..'

This.

My husband had a psychotic episode and took his own life after decades of mental illness. If I believed that God had made him unable to cope with reality and filled his mind with hideous visions and fears to the point where he could not make normal choices such as what to eat but instead could not bear to be alive any more, I would be so angry all the time. As it is, he had a psychotic episode and took his own life. It's just a fact. He survived other episodes, and he should have survived this one. I made mistakes, the NHS made mistakes, the police made mistakes, and he died.

I find no religion has yet had anything to say to me that is helpful about mental illness. I was struck by the fact that my dh became religious when he was psychotic, being atheist when he was more well. I don't think this necessarily is a 'gotcha' about atheism being right. It's certainly possible that what we see as mental illness is some kind of access to a different form of thought that is ultimately beneficial to the world. I acknowledge that possibility but I don't believe it. I think the mind is complex and it goes wrong, and there is no God to either blame or praise for it.

Woollycardi · 05/11/2019 11:06

I'm so sorry to read your experience @TemporaryPermanent.
Thank you for what you wrote though, I am so sorry for your loss.

SurveyorScott · 23/11/2019 09:31

I too find it awful that Churches can say things like this. It's been said that "God just needed another little angel" when a parent loses a child, how is that supposed to help the parents? How could a loving God even conceive of doing that?

From what I read in the bible though, I find a different answer.

1 John 5:19 says "We all know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one" (ASV). Or, as some other translations put it, control of the evil one.

To me, accepting that what we see happening around the world is not 'God's Plan', but the evil one's (identified as Satan the Devil in the bible) makes far more sense for me personally.

The reason I say that is because things don't seem to be getting any better, people just seem to be getting angrier and more hateful to each other, all over the world. That's not what I'd expect if a peaceful, loving God controlled the destiny of each of us here on Earth. But that does make perfect sense if a more malevolent influence was present.

That doesn't mean our own imperfections don't have an impact or sometimes we are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But again, I find it hard to believe a loving God would actively bring these situations upon us, it's completely contrary to what I read in the bible.

The question is, if God isn't in control at the moment, why? That's a longer answer.

Hope that helps.

Pinkroses21 · 19/01/2020 18:32

Islamically speaking the reason for difficulties is that they are tests/trials from God. Since we were put on this earth for a reason. Not just to eat, sleep and repeat. The main aim is attain paradise when we die. So everything that happens to us is a test from God. Good or bad. If all you ever received were blessings and never had to struggle , how could you truly be worthy of such a reward as paradise. Similar to passing exams. You can't get an A without first putting in the work. In most religions, heaven is a reward for people who do good. And hell a punishment for those who only do wrong. Everyone has their own unique views and beliefs. But we all end up the same way. I don't believe that we are simply placed here just to enjoy eating, drinking, working, sleeping, and on top of that have to struggle endlessly with death of loved ones, illness, betrayal, poverty then after 70-80 years we just die and become forgotten. I think we all know that there must be something greater than ourselves for everything to be possible. And if we were at deaths door we would all most likely call out to that greater being to help us. Whoever it may be to us. That's from an Islamic perspective.

Best wishes x

LastTrainEast · 23/01/2020 23:19

Tests and trails, punishments for sin or "Satan did it" and none of them work if you read the bible. God says HE drowned babies in the flood and later that he murdered all the firstborn of Egypt. In both cases because he didn't like what some adults did.

The only possible defence is "it's only fiction"

EwanHuzarmi · 24/01/2020 23:12

Islamically speaking the reason for difficulties is that they are tests/trials from God.

Bone cancer in children, a test from god. Babies dying in agony of starvation, a test from god. And you worship this bloke, and think he's a greater being? You're welcome to him.

PermanentTemporary · 24/01/2020 23:31

But testing someone by making them mentally ill or giving them a learning disability or dementia is just silly. You'd be removing their ability to 'work' to pass the test. And drifting perilously close to saying that these things exist to test other people; that God made my husband mentally ill to test my ability to bear it patiently and love him. To me that's especially vile.

I do know that many people with a learning disability are said to have great faith. And as I said in my other username above, my husband was more religious when he was psychotic. I prefer not to think of him as striving through mental torture for God's love.

Russellbrandshair · 24/01/2020 23:42

My feeling is, that God gave us free will in a fallen world. That means life is full of suffering and that we also have free will to make our own mistakes.
That doesn’t mean God planned bad things to happen to us but that bad things are simply a side effect to living. They are unavoidable. We can either look to God through the bad, or we can allow the bad to make us bitter and angry. Suffering is often what transforms our character and helps us appreciate the good. That doesn’t mean bad things aren’t shitty or we don’t question why. But we do have a choice- we can look to God to help us through it or we can be angry at a God and suffer more by the way we react to it. No matter what anyone says, staying bitter and angry DOES prolong our suffering so we need to ask ourselves why that is and how best to heal. In my opinion, the best way to heal is to get close to God, the one who created us and knows us best. Our source from where we came.

tunnocksreturns2019 · 24/01/2020 23:56

OP, I wrestle with this too. God did not ‘draw close’ or give me any comfort at all during the illness and death of my husband. It made me feel like faith was just another thing I didn’t deserve. It still does.

There isn’t a bright side to his death. He was a wonderful, wonderful man and his children shouldn’t have been deprived of him when they were still calling him ‘Daddy’

tunnocksreturns2019 · 24/01/2020 23:57

I am angry too. It’s allowed.

PermanentTemporary · 25/01/2020 00:05

Or we can choose to decide God doesn't exist and we don't have to be angry with anyone for life's crap bits.

tunnocksreturns2019 · 25/01/2020 00:08

I’m not angry with anyone! I’m angry because my wonderful husband is dead. I don’t blame anyone. I do feel angry sometimes though. It’s common, and natural. It is an outrage he is gone. Squishing that feeling down all the time isn’t helpful.

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