Question for Christians

[TildaKauskumholm]

Not being goady or disrespectful at all, just puzzled. I am just recovering from a health issue and have been using online forums for support and advice. Many on there are American, and it is common for them to mention praying re test results/surgery etc. They also say things such as God has helped their recovery/given them a good outcome, etc. I am always puzzled by this, and would like to know, if you are a Christian, why do you think God will help you through the problem, or has caused you to recover, when surely God could have caused you NOT to have the health issue in the first place? Please don't be offended, I am not anti-Christian or any other religion, but I don't get the thinking here.

I have MS always remember the line that St Thomas more wrote to his daughter.
'Nothing can come but what God wills. And I am very sure that whatever that be, however bad it may seem, it shall indeed be the best.'
I don't pray for healing. I pray for the strength to deal with it.

Thanks, but what I don't understand is that if you think God can heal you or help you AFTER you have an illness/other bad event, do you not wonder why God let this happen to you (or caused it to happen)?

So you can think more deeply on being alive? No answers but loads of enjoyment discussing the possibilities. Slainte on your good health!

Prayer is a funny thing. I think "actively resting in the presence of God" is more helpful when explaining prayer as our society has a culture of petition. Unfortunately this quickly becomes "if I pray hard enough..." or "if I believe enough..."

As a Christian I believe that God can do anything. But that doesn't mean He (or she) will.

Healing doesn't always mean physical. It can mean coming to a place of peace.

Not all Christians believe the same so I'm not going to start a theological discussion on why God allows bad stuff to happen.

I personally think it's annoying and unhelpful to offer prayer. For some people it helps. But for others not so much!

I'm pleased you're on the mend.

Given that god can perform miracles, why does no one ever pray for them? People pray that their loved one might be cured of cancer, but if they die, they don't pray that they might come back to life.

Someone might pray for the strength to lose 4 stone, but wouldn't pray to go to bed at night and wake up next morning 4 stone lighter.

But why not? Surely god can do these things, so why does no one ask for it?

Well I don't believe God causes everything that happens. He could stop it if He chose but if He interfered in everything, He would be a dictator and He isn't. So if I were ill, or going through a bad time, it wouldn't occur to me to blame God for it but I would pray for healing or strength to cope, whichever God felt best since He sees the big picture I can't. The Bible never says God will take suffering away from us but it does say He will show us the way through it and support us. That's how I see it, anyway.

He could stop it if He chose but if He interfered in everything, He would be a dictator and He isn't

So an earthquake causing a school to collapse and crushing children to death...he knows it's coming, he could stop it if he chose, but he just stands idly by and watches it unfold, because he doesn't want to be a dictator.

How about if a scientist and the local seismology centre did the same. Picked up the tremors on his equipment, know the quake was coming, could call the school and warn then to get everyone out, but thought "nah, not doing it, don't want to be a dictator." Do you think he'd keep his job?

You could write an essay on why does God let bad stuff happen. We would need to talk about "the fall", theories of atonement and what each individuals understanding of hell is. I'm not a theologian or the right person to open that discussion. All I can say is doubt is not the opposite of faith. I get mad at God for all the bad things that happen.

Going back to my Earthquke scenario, so God doesn't intervene to stop it because he's not a dictator. But after a week, when 1 or the 100 children missing presumed dead, is pulled alive from the rubble....it's a miracle, God has saved the child. "Thank you god for this miracle, of saving my child and letting all their classmates die in agony."

When good stuff happens, God gets the credit. When bad stuff happens, he's in the clear. Sounds like a pretty easy gig to me.

1 of the 100, not 1 or.

I think people pray to God to help them after the event has occurred because they can't pray before it has happened as they don't know it is going to happen.
Earthquake are part of the natural world and how the earth functions. Sadly people have built their homes over fault lines resulting in terrible tragedy. God doesn't intervene because where would he stop? Where would he draw the line? He would have to intervene over everything and then we wouldn't be living a free live and make our own choices.
Don't forget it's people that are screwing up this planet.

I really struggle to understand this too. How can God be a both a loving, benevolent God and all-powerful? When he created a world with earthquakes in it, and cancer?

I really have struggled with faith. I was brought up in an atheist family but both my sister and I chose to go to church during our teenage years and our parents supported our choice. My sister is still a Christian At the age of 55 but I’ve had a much more fluid relationship with Christ.
Lost all belief from 16 to 32 had my children started again going to church.
10 years of being an active member of the congregation, organised crèche then became a Sunday school teacher.
I now am back to be a non believer.
Nothing special happened just I realised what I was enjoying was the community not the religious beliefs.
It was a sad realisation, luckily I’ve kept in touch with a few people from church but I can’t expect them to understand my views.
I’d love to be a believer I’ve tried really hard but I just can’t.

@MrsSquiggler I think you've answered your own question?

I guess Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane is thought-provoking Mark 14:36: “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

I guess if you see prayer as wish fulfilment it doesn’t work. But if you see prayer as communication in a relationship it does make sense. We tell people we love how we are feeling. We tell people we think about them and wonder about how we could help - and People find it comforting. I guess talking about things (good and bad) in our own and others’ lives with God is a bit like prayer.

Doesn’t solve the omnipotent, omniscient and all-loving issue. I guess maybe it is hard for finite humans to comprehend it all? But I know this isn’t always a very satisfying explanation though - especially for those who are going through suffering

Hi Tilda!
I've only just seen your post and you ask some very good questions.

As to why I think God will help me through a problem?
I answer this by saying He has shown His love and compassion for me by coming to this earth in the person of His Son Jesus Christ, and dying for me, offering Himself as perfect sacrifice, so that I may have life and have it more abundantly.

"Greater love has no one than this, than to lay one's life for his friends."
John 15:13

Why do we suffer?
It is the result of sin which tainted God's creation including our bodies. However, Jesus came to redeem mankind, that is to save us from the penalty of sin, which is spiritual death and separation from God, and from the power of sin, which can enable us to turn from sinful, selfish desires that can never completly satisfy, to experiencing a life full of peace and joy.

How does man experience this redemption?
It is by faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
Romans3:23

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 6:23

"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"
Romans 10:9

"For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Romans 10:5

I hope this reply has answered some of your questions, Tilda. Please feel free to pm me also at any time!
Also, I truly will pray for you as you have shared you've been facing some health challenges...

Kindly,
Julie

Thanks all, for your replies and for your good wishes! Sorry to say I'm no further in understanding re what i asked at the beginning of the thread. The earthquake/cancer etc questions are of course something to wonder about as well, but I guess my question was about those praying on an individual basis as I stated, with their health issues. I can see that it might be comforting, and also see that the social aspect and sense of community can be very attractive. However if you are such a person who would pray for a good recovery from illness/surgery etc, do you not stop to wonder why, if you think God can influence the outcome, why he did not cause you not to have the issue in the first place? There's no logic, even though I know faith does not require logic!

gingham,
I pray because I am the "created" and God is THE "Creator". The Sovereign God of all creation surely has the power to physically heal.
We are not always healed, otherwise there would never be death. However, we can go to Him and share our concerns and cares.
God didn't necessarily cause a present illness, however it has been revealed to us that our bodies have been tainted due to sin entering this world through Adam's disobedience in the Garden of Eden.

Before the fall of Adam, there was no sin in the world and Adam and Eve had bodies that were perfect and healthy. However, as a result of their sinful disobedience they were separated from fellowship with God and their bodies, along with all God's creation, suffer corruption as a result of their original sin.

If we are still paying for Adams sins then god is a vindictive fucker and the less we have to do with him/her the better.

I love these questions, genuinely.

I have been mulling this over a lot recently, and for me there are two main questions: Is God an interventionist, and what is prayer / what is that purpose?

And I can't give a clear answer.

So, is God interventionist? If yes, then our prayers would be answered, wouldn't they? Maureen's cateract operation would be successful, the family facing unemployment for the main wage earner would find a new job, the parent with cancer would be healed
... So why aren't they? Why are all the children dying due to famine?

Or is God not interventionist? If so, that explains why bad things happen, but if so, what is the point of praying as He wouldn't respond to any prayer to intervene?

Is prayer to reflect, by praying for an event, a cure, an improvement in health, are we thinking of those in need, those worse off than us, and so in turn what we could do, as Christians / person of faith, to help?

I can't remember the person, gentleman separated from his partner in a war, captured by Germans and then executed (if I remember correctly) wrote many essays while incarcerated, and one point was prayer is not to fill the gaps in your life but to highlight them and then for us to focus on them.

It's an uncomfortable area if you probe deeply and challenge loudly, and I find it wobbles my faith a lot.

Jason 118,
Actually we are not paying for Adam's sin but are accountable for our own. We are however descendents of Adam and therefore have inherited his sin nature. As a result of sin, mankind is separated from God, known as spiritual death, and our physical bodies suffer as well.
God however in His desire to bring us into His presence, in full fellowship and restoration, sent His Son into this world to pay the penalty for our sin, so that those who believe on Jesus will receive His imputed righteousness.

Those of gifted with faith sit back smugly, bathing in the stuff!

@aintMissbehaving thanks for the explanation, I see it all makes sense now. Do you mean believe in the lord jesus, I'm assuming 'believe on' is just a typo?

It's illogical to us but not to God. We'll never be able to fully understand. Part of faith/belief is acceptance of this. The acceptance part is the 'leap of faith'.

Ever heard of the 'greater good'... It could be because of that... But we'll never know...

I had this similar discussion recently... God knows what will unfold but doesn't cause everything... In reference to the awful atrocities of WW2 and the persecution of the Jews it is too simple to think he could have just stopped it at the start...

God is known as Lord, like a Master... We can only ask of him and not expect him to deliver as it were.... He sees the bigger picture...

It does feel sometimes like we are being played with as I often wonder why was the world created... Was it just for entertainment?!.... But maybe that's wrong and I hope God tries to correct my thinking if it is!

Well certainly in my case any illness I'm going to get is most likely down to my lifestyle choices. I'm a little over weight, don't eat enough fruit and veg and a lot too much cake. I exercise but probably not enough.
Should God stop me getting ill by forcing me to eat more veg everyday or moving my legs to make me run? Equally I might pray to have the will power to do these things myself and I guess if I did become I'll I would pray for healing and then make the necessary lifestyle change.
And yes obviously not all illness can be attributed to lifestyle but pollution etc probably doesn't help. When should God intervene?