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Original poster

Question for Christians

88 replies

TildaKauskumholm · 18/08/2019 20:14

Not being goady or disrespectful at all, just puzzled. I am just recovering from a health issue and have been using online forums for support and advice. Many on there are American, and it is common for them to mention praying re test results/surgery etc. They also say things such as God has helped their recovery/given them a good outcome, etc. I am always puzzled by this, and would like to know, if you are a Christian, why do you think God will help you through the problem, or has caused you to recover, when surely God could have caused you NOT to have the health issue in the first place? Please don't be offended, I am not anti-Christian or any other religion, but I don't get the thinking here.

OP posts:

MapLand · 24/08/2019 23:23

@JoyceDivision Your description sounds like Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Yes, the question about whether God intervenes or not is a big one. And how God can bear not to, if God doesn't, or how does God choose which interventions to make, if God makes only a relatively few?

Christianity is a view of life in light of the person of Jesus Christ. The story of Christ is of a God who so desired to gather up God's beloved, broken creation that God divested part of Godself into a defense less, vulnerable baby and chose to live and die within that beloved, broken creation. The story says that in so doing, Christ gathered up every part of creation and reconciled it with the loving presence of God. It can sound simplistic or trite to come back to Christians ultimately placing their trust in the loving action of Christ towards us, but that is what we do. Wrestling and living that trust out is a complex dynamic which shifts as we live life year by year. We find ourselves gradually changed as we re-orient our lives in the light of Christ, albeit we mostly do a weak job at best of re-orienting. But the dynamic of grace we talk about is experienced/released/revealed in the moments of trusting and turning towards Christ, rather than what happens as a 'result' of that.

aintMissbehaving · 24/08/2019 23:41

@Jason118
Not a typo, just a way to express faith in action within a personal context ...I believe in/on the finished work of Christ.

Jason118 · 25/08/2019 09:39

Believe on isn't a thing, you can't believe on something?

tierraJ · 25/08/2019 20:06

I work in a hospital & believe that if God does exist he is either not good or is on strike!

I've known terrible things happen to lovely people including children & good religious people yet some real nasty people don't seem to suffer & they live long lives.
Just as an example lots of 'minor' Nazi war criminals got away without much punishment & went on to enjoy long lives.

I've witnessed many deaths & im sorry but I don't believe in heaven or hell or the spirit world. I think these things were made up in the Middle Ages to keep the population obedient. You have to make the most of this life!!

The first time I stopped believing in a benevolent God was when I was a child & my happy little pet rabbit suffered flystrike before he was put to sleep. It was horrible - what kind of God lets innocent creatures suffer like that? Why invent flystrike?

My late Nan had a neighbour Morris who was Jewish- he was at the DDay landings - he lost his faith on seeing his badly wounded comrades.
And my Nan. She was a Christian but her God allowed her to suffer Psychosis with scary hallucinations in her last 2 years & have the indignity of being sectioned at 91.

Sorry if my views have offended anyone but I feel so angry about it all.

Helmlover1 · 26/08/2019 23:02

So you’re ultimately asking why does God ‘allow’ for bad things to happen? In my opinion, if there were no, often man-made problems, we would essentially be living in ‘Heaven’ (where many believe no such atrocities occur). However, we are not. We are living on earth with ‘worldly’ issues to contend with. You must have heard the phrase ‘these things are sent to test us’- I honestly believe there is a lot of truth in this.

It always amuses me when non-religious people ask hypocritical questions such as ‘if God exists why is there war/famine/poverty’? Firstly, these problems are caused by people- not God, and secondly, if you are going to blame God for every single thing that goes wrong in your life, or you perceive to be wrong in the world, then surely he also deserves praise for the positive aspects too?

actuallyquitesmall · 26/08/2019 23:16

Well if God was responsible for the appalling suffering my mother had to endure in her final weeks, and in her dreadful, agonising gruesome death, I would like to know why.

I would not want to have anything to do with a god who could be so evil.

Lifecraft · 27/08/2019 13:30

So you’re ultimately asking why does God ‘allow’ for bad things to happen? In my opinion, if there were no, often man-made problems

Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, various cancers, parasites that burrow into the eyes of children, these are not man made problems. If if the problem is man made, why not inflict the results on those that made them? Children in Sub Saharan Africa starving to death due to corrupt governments, while the corrupt leaders live in luxury to old age?

The opposite is actually true, you give god a free pass for everything that goes wrong, but give him all the credit for things that go well. He's never to blame for the Earthquake, but let's praise god when a child is dragged out of the rubble.

Lifecraft · 27/08/2019 13:39

Actually we are not paying for Adam's sin but are accountable for our own. We are however descendents of Adam and therefore have inherited his sin nature. As a result of sin, mankind is separated from God, known as spiritual death, and our physical bodies suffer as well.
God however in His desire to bring us into His presence, in full fellowship and restoration, sent His Son into this world to pay the penalty for our sin, so that those who believe on Jesus will receive His imputed righteousness.

I find it incredibly depressing that in 2019, grown adults still buy into this stuff. Adam & Eve, Garden of Eden, stuff we know scientifically, without doubt not to be true. It's on the same level as flat Earth believers.

Genuinely bizarre.

aintMissbehaving · 27/08/2019 17:27

Lifecraft,
I have to admit my surprise that you find it incredibly depressing and bizarre that in 2019 adults would hold the belief that humanity was descended from a man and a woman (Adam and Eve) who existed in a geographical location (Garden of Eden).

Jason118 · 27/08/2019 20:00

@aintMissbehaving unfortunately genetics tells us that it's not possible for humanity to be descended from Adam an Eve, regardless of known geography

Lifecraft · 27/08/2019 20:51

Exactly Jason. Faith is generally about believing in stuff for which there is no evidence, which is strange enough as it is. But to believe in Adam & Eve/Genesis goes a step further, believing in stuff which is completely contrary to the evidence.

It just didn't happen.

aintMissbehaving · 27/08/2019 21:28

@Jason118

I respectfully disagree with your comment that "genetics tells us that it's not possible for humanity to be descended from Adam and Eve". You and I disagree, yes. But yours is a blanket statement that does not represent the full body of discourse on this subject within the scientific community.

Lulualla · 27/08/2019 21:36

I don't believe in God. Any of them. They're just stories which were told in times when people had no other explanations for the things happening in the world around them. We know better now. Advancements in technology and science have given explanations to things which those people couldn't explain at all. They created stories to answer their questions. It's part of evolution. Every civilisation had ritual and deities because humans have a need to understand and explain. In the absence of anything else, religion was born. But we know better now. The people who hang onto the concept on gods floating around watching them just havnt quite moved on yet

DippidyDooDah · 27/08/2019 22:09

I'm of a scientific background yet believe in God. Many others in science also believe. It's up to the individual to believe. Many say our health and longevity is tied to how we act as Christians. Your not a Christian if you just go to church every Sunday. You're a Christian if you truly try to practice a Christian way of life. God tests us, evil tempts us. For those who are taken to soon, who have lived well, they've actually been taken to heaven/ God's presence quickly...

To the person who said in 2019 it's depressing adults still buy into this stuff....I find it depressing how so many are spiritually dead inside and are living in hell on earth 😔 That's really depressing.

DippidyDooDah · 27/08/2019 22:12

The old testament was written in the context of ancient people. It's not as simple as it's written in some parts I'm sure. You have to read it with an open mind.

Jason118 · 27/08/2019 22:28

You have to read it with an open mind
No, you don't have to read it at all.

Jason118 · 27/08/2019 22:31

.I find it depressing how so many are spiritually dead inside and are living in hell on earth
You appear to suggest that one leads to the other. What absolute nonsense. I've been to Hull, it's full of churches and stuff.

Jason118 · 27/08/2019 22:32

Oops, misread it, apologies.

tierraJ · 28/08/2019 15:09

I'm not living in 'hell on earth' I'm quite enjoying life thank you!

Knitclubchatter · 28/08/2019 15:29

My beliefs are uniquely individual, and I suspect everyone’s are slightly different. Somehow I find prayer peaceful and thought provoking. It also gives me strength to carry on when faced with adversity.
Be it cancer, earthquake or my children needing help, I don’t ask why but I would ask for guidance on making good choices going forward.

Lifecraft · 29/08/2019 08:57

I respectfully disagree with your comment that "genetics tells us that it's not possible for humanity to be descended from Adam and Eve".

People also respectfully disagree that the world is a sphere and the holocaust happened. They are just wrong. And so are you.

Skyejuly · 29/08/2019 12:54

I never have had a answer that makes sense. I always just get given bible quotes that did not answer the question.

The abrahamic god seems a bit of a narc.

aintMissbehaving · 29/08/2019 21:57

@Lifecraft
In all fairness Lifecraft, you are the one bringing up flat earth believers and Holocaust deniers. Views I do not hold nor do I personally know anyone who does!
Are there people who believe such things? Sure, but there are all sorts out there, from all walks of life, and in the arena of ideas one is sure to hear just about everything. I do think however, that bringing up such fringe theories is a bit of a distraction and not relevant to the discussion of Christianity.
I would encourage anyone who is interested in the Faith, or who may have doubts, to examine the Scriptures. They can certainly withstand scrutiny! There are many books and writings which detail the reliability of Scripture, covering such topics as archaeological discoveries, historical records, science, etc...
Actually, it was through such research that I became a believer. Logical inquiry overcame the doubt that my heart may have felt!

Also, I want to say that sometimes discussing and/or debating big life issues can cause us to get our backs up a bit - we're all susceptible to pride and wanting to win an argument. But hand over heart, I wish you well (and others who have commented!) and am glad to have participated in this discussion and to hear what others are thinking...

Lifecraft · 30/08/2019 13:29

@Lifecraft In all fairness Lifecraft, you are the one bringing up flat earth believers and Holocaust deniers. Views I do not hold nor do I personally know anyone who does!

Lots of people believe in a flat Earth and deny the holocaust happened, because they lack any critical thinking skills and evidence/facts are not something that rank highly in their priorities.

Believing that the Genesis story is true, and that all of mankind came from Adam & Eve, who lived in the garden of Eden, is no less ridiculous.

Dontsharefood · 30/08/2019 22:04

Who's spiritually dead inside? What does that even mean?

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