Christianity- this might be the end of the road.

[Timeandtimeagain42]

I'm at New Wine in Peterborough. Just had one more in a long line of tiny incidents where so called Christians are unpleasant, officious and generally won't lift a finger to actually offer any practical help.
Fair enough, I'm quite independent but now the whole festival is turning my stomach. Chock full of people singing pretty words and praying to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" but there's no substance behind any of it, nobody is prepared to actually do anything except sing and pray. I've been a Christian for 30 years but I think,
I think I may have reached the end if my journey. Tell me I'm wrong somebody?

You're probably not wrong! They sound like arses. But have you met any decent folk to cancel out the wrong 'uns?

Well, there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world, OP. Maybe you just met some not very good ones!
My own church congregation is lovely. We support a variety of good causes, and even our teenagers have raised funds to rebuild earthquake damaged houses in Nepal, and pay for poor farmers in Malawi to put their kids through high school. On a national scale, the church is one of the biggest operators in the country for running social projects, care homes etc.
Maybe you need to mix with a different congregation, and also examine your own faith and relationship with God. Perhaps He’s offering you these unpleasant people as a chance for you to help them in their own struggles to be better Christians?

I understand how you feel, but don't let these wronguns change your philosophy.
Their behaviour says more about them than God.

Sadly that's always been my experience of so called Christians too. Big on words, but when it comes to being there for someone in trouble, then not so much.

I attended the funeral of a friend's mother the other week. Both were big churchgoers and active in church life but the only two of my friend's friends who attended to support her were a mutual friend who is a humanist and me. Not one of her church friends bothered.

Please don’t give up! I’m told Gandhi said “Your Christ, I like. Your Christians, I’m not so sure about”

Have you read Searching for Sunday by Rachel Held Evans? Beautiful book (subtitled “loving, leaving and finding the church”)

Perhaps He’s offering you these unpleasant people as a chance for you to help them in their own struggles to be better Christians?

Seriously?

Chock full of people singing pretty words and praying to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" but there's no substance behind any of it, nobody is prepared to actually do anything except sing and pray

Sounds like uni CU, which helped dispel the faith I'd been raised in. It was a lovely social club but entirely self-serving.

I'm at new wine at the moment too, sort of on my own, and I've had a bit of a conflicting morning - I went to presence at 9.15, enjoyed the worship and teaching but the stuff about the holy spirit at the end disturbed me (not sure if disturbed is exactly the right word) but there were people falling over and shaking and I felt completely unmoved and left thinking if I was doing something wrong. However I then went to the CAP seminar and came out completely on fire about how Christians are making a real difference for people in poverty in the UK. I think I'm more of an action Christian!!

My experience in local church as someone with a disability was, frankly, horrendous and still is.

When I was able to attend and do things like choir and bake for various things and attend them when able I was trotted out as token disabled congregation person. Lots of praying for my needs and struggles. However, when I began to not be able to do those things (my condition deterioates and they knew this) I began to get comments about being lazy and refusing to contribute. When put on benefits I was expected to tithe the same I did in work and when I explained about being on benefits got told they'd no need for "paupers pennies". When I collapsed I was told I'd ruined the service for everyone.

I've not been in over a year.

People now cross the street to avoid me. Some will stop me in shop buying food or getting meds, all I'm physically able to do now - no one at all to help, they won't despite me asking, unless I attend every church service and contribute and put in some effort - completely missing the point and berate me for no longer going or being a Christian and how much they need me to go back. Do they care my condition has become terminal? No. I just get told of others who attend with terminal illnesses. That I've no family or anyone to help me at all and those people do so they can do things like attend church completely passes them by. Being alone and seriously ill is horrendous and is almost impossible to understand unless you've been through it.

I'm no longer considered a Christian by these people because I don't attend. I'd already had comments about that as I didn't contribute enough and being young I was expected to do more and more and hold down a full time job (which wasn't 9-5) plus manage my illnesses. When I was able to do those things I was paying a lot for private care and support. I got a huge amount of comments about being inspirational and how much they were willing to help when things got bad for me, but it was just an illusion and it really hurt when I realised that.

I say services at home. Watch services in YouTube and pray. I miss human contact but I feel more of a part of the body of Christ than I did there.

You seem to have this all backwards. What do you want people to actually do? What do you want to do?

Presumably they have gone to new wine to sing and pray. You dont know what everyone does in their lives' missions. Being judgemental is really not Christian. Perhaps you need to refresh your faith in a different way.

Personally I would be uncomfortable with evangelical worship. Im Catholic.

I watched Pete Greig talking about how despite being a charismatic pastor (night club style worship) he turned to Anglican style high church and the Eucharist to cope with his wife's cancer diagnosis. The point being that you need different ways of worshipping at different points in your life.

So new wine is no longer for you. Try something else. If you want an active mission based church Im sure that is out there. I dont know much about new wine but Id have thought that would be a good way to connect with someone who could help you. If not, its definitely one to pray on.

Dont let a narrow selection of Christians dictate your relationship with God. Plough your own furrow.

nanny I had a similar experience with people falling over etc at a meeting I went to over ten years ago. Those who didn't were made to feel like they weren't wanted/rejected by the Holy Spirit in some way. It was really horrible to witness and be treated like that (I didn't fall over of react in anyway).

Everyone has different gifts.

I came to this conclusion some years ago. I'm now pagan.

I was a single parent at my church desperate to be accepted. Was ignored despite all my efforts. After three years I just broke down after nobody even bothered to say happy Christmas at the christmas day service to me when they all knew me and my son were completely alone in the world. I just went home and cried.
I stopped going after that. A few months later went to a pagan moot and was immediately accepted into their community and received everything I hadn't received from other Christians. 20 years later I'm still incredibly happy within the pagan community. They are warm, friendly and caring. Christians completely destroyed my faith.

I'm sorry you're having a crappy time.

But isn't your faith about you and Jesus; your relationship, the forgiveness and grace you've received etc? How can other people labelling themselves "Christian" and acting in self-serving ways change that at all?

OP firstly I'm sorry. and secondly this is A long post!

New Wine at the showground in Peterborough - famous for flooding was never going to be a good idea.
I'm not sure why when Christians get together we/they have to pretend there has been some kind of natural disaster that they are fleeing from.
I'm a Christian but I'd have been in the Marriott across the road - The Mormons clearly have that right. Why do wet and cold and covered in mud? I just don't get it.
I also think that New Wine is a bit like Christmas Day, there is this consuming need for it to be the best thing ever and it will never be that! I don't want to bash evangelicals, but I think that sometimes they just don't get Christianity. A famous quote goes - tell everyone you are a VChristian, speak if you have to.' That's probably Teresa of Avila, bit I can't be arsed to check.

With New Wine and 'evangelicalness' as a whole there seems to be an extra set of rules. Be straight, have children, be blissfully happily married, be middle class, be able-bodied and be white.

I think New Wine has little to do with the week in week out Christianity you'll get in most churches up and down the country. My local church is changing into a new Wine church. When I was ill last year. Eight weeks at home, only one of the congregation visited me. I live opposite the church. A 'friend' who hadn't visited me, emailed me to say that as I was only at home, with lots of time on my hands, would I organise the fete for them as I had in previous years.

This same church has steps into it and only has disabled access if someone opens a different door. One Christmas Eve a disabled person crawled into the church as the service had started and the other door wasn't open. I campaigned for a ramp, offered to pay for it and was told no. I started a foodbank in the church and told it was a lot of effort so it was stopped.

However, Christians like all people come in different shapes and sizes and one church does not fit all. Do a bit of research and see what other churches around you are like. Not everyone from the same church goes to New Wine - personally I would rather stick pins in my eyes than go to New Wine, in the rain, in Peterborough, in a tent! You deserve better!

We can all stick our hand in the air and sing 'Our God is a great big God', but Christianity is more than that. I hope you find your 'more'.

There are some rude, selfish unhelpful people outside of Christianity too. You would hope that being Christian would help someone be more like Jesus - maybe what you're seeing here is these people already nicer than they were before!

My observation of people is that people's traits - whether rude and selfish or polite and altruistic, or whatever - operate pretty much independently of whether they profess to have a faith or not.

Wow!! Thank you so much for all your replies. I'm touched that you've taken the time to respond in so much detail.

“Your Christ, I like. Your Christians, I’m not so sure about”

This and the people who reminded me that my faith is about Christ and not about other people. Very true and I needed reminding of that.

For background, I'm a lesbian, single mother, slightly disabled so I don't really fit this:
Be straight, have children, be blissfully happily married, be middle class, be able-bodied and be white.

Too well, I think all my life I've struggled with the idea of a Christian elite who are pretty, confident, happy and perky not forgetting straight and who always, always seem to be upfront in these events. From the age of 14 I've wondered why God seems to love them more than me.

I realise a lot of this is probably that this type of event just isn't for me and maybe this "crisis of confidence" in my faith will be good for me long term. Thanks all.

@Paddington68 your PST really made me laugh!!

@Becca19962014 I'm so sorry, your church sounds dreadful and I'm so sad that they've put you off for life.

@NannyR I've had this experience too with "Holy spirit" based meetings. Usually come away feeling nothing except a failure. I suspect a lot of people feel this way actually and don't like to let the side down by admitting it.

Glad the CAP meeting turned things around for you though.

Timeandtimeagain I am sorry you feel like God loves other people more than you. Its really not not true. In your adversity I think you are closer to God: the last shall be first and the first shall be last. Having it easy in life is meant to be a disadvantage in heavenly terms!

Could you work out what you want from your spiritual life and seek that out? Or try new things you think you would enjoy and see if that helps.

What is your regular church like? Are you surrounded there by toxic people. Is it time to move on?

Was going to say I like the hallow app and there are probably some other prayer apps so you could take a quieter, individual approach to encountering Christ. I like the daily examen helping me look for God in my day to day life and think about my own behaviour. Or lectio divina reading and meditating on the gospel.

Hello @timeandtimeagain42 - I'm so sorry you're struggling at NW and aren't finding that authentic Christianity you're searching for there. I'm so sad to hear that because I've been going for many years and really do find it, but I guess it's always the people you meet and a few difficult people can sour the whole thing, sadly. I was there last week and we had a few crises in my church community, everyone mucked in and people felt incredibly cared for and loved in some difficult stuff.

I'd like to gently challenge some of the stuff said here. I really don't think NW is for the one demographic mentioned, in my experience it's far more diverse and getting more so every year. One of the things I very much value is the access/our place provision for children and adults with additional needs, it's just wonderful and you feel like you are listened to and cared about. I'm so grateful this is expanding all the time.

It might be that some people want to only sing the 'pretty songs' and not let them influence their lives, but my experience is that the worship is transformative, that praising God even through darkness can take people to profound depths which then turn things around. I'm sure there are people there who are shallow and who still act badly even while seeming to join in, but I believe there are thousands who are genuinely engaging to be changed for good, to let the worship and teaching become a catalyst for them going out and bringing more kingdom stuff to the world. There's a massive emphasis on justice and compassion at NW, it's one reason I love it and find it to be authentic rather than just a place to go to go and be all falsely happy and sickly joyful. It's so much more real than that. I love that there are seminars on everything from mental health and chronic illness through to dealing with debt and finding God in pain.

I'm so sorry you're hurting and I'm so sorry you're not finding community there who are helpful and loving. Please don't give up on God because of a few difficult people, or let these people colour what you think of the other thousands there. It is also a truth that NW will suit some and not others, and that's absolutely fine, we are all different and respond to things differently, so it might be that it's not for you and you find something else of more help. Be kind to yourself and perhaps explore some of the other venues for a different perspective. I hope you have moments of light in the week despite a difficult start.

timeandagain42
The A1 is moments away and runs in both directions.
Madhairday
I'm glad you enjoy it, but I feel that the way your response is worded puts the onus on the OP for not fitting in and not the others she has encountered.

Christianity is a broad church in every sense. There is a worship style for everyone. I would be horribly uncomfortable with the evangelical, charismatic, speaking in tongues, rolling on the floor type of goings on! I’m Church of Scotland, and we’re much more into no frills, practical, caring Christianity- deeds, not words.
I’ve been horrified by some of the posts on here, and the terrible churches they describe, that are failing in the very basics of their mission. They sound more like snobby exclusive social clubs than anything Christ would recognise.
OP, there will be many different churches wherever you live, from Catholic to C of E, Methodist, Baptist, Salvation Army, Quakers, whatever. And even within each sect, much depends on how good the individual minister or priest is.
Why not shop around for a more loving and welcoming congregation?
I can usually sense the atmosphere within minutes of walking into a new church. Am I warmly welcomed, is there a large Sunday school presence, is there disabled access, are there lots of outreach activities, are people chatting happily or sitting in glum silence, is the minister moving among their flock pre service, enquiring how they all are, etc etc.
I remember “shopping” for a church when a horrible new minister started at my old one. I walked into one to find a toddler playing happily on the pulpit steps. The smiling elderly male minister scooped him up, gave him a cuddle, and carried him to his mum, before starting the service. That got my vote!
My current minister is a brilliant woman, doubly qualified in law and divinity, a grade 8 musician and a military chaplain. She’s also excellent at pastoral care, and has a wicked sense of humour. Our congregation is growing, as you can imagine, and includes all ages from 4 to 90, gay, straight, healthy and frail. There are thousands more churches as lovely as mine. My prayers that you find yours. God bless. A

I was at Week One and felt completely disengaged from the worship all week.
With all healing testimonies etc I always find myself thinking that there was probably another explanation. I also found the words of knowledge conveniently broad eg. “Someone called Mike with a knee problem, the Lord wants to heal you!”
(Wow I am such a cynic!!)

I know IABU but I also really can’t shake the feeling that I can’t take to PH and whenever he started to lead ministry time in the arena I just don’t feel authenticity from him.

I still don’t know what I think about it all but I’m not quite ready to walk away completely. I actually think it’s normal and healthy to question and especially question the ‘emotions’ part of it and Holy Spirit stuff.
What I held onto is that I still got something out of the teaching and seminars eg parenting one, and like I said I’m not comfortable with all of it but I’m not ready to say categorically the bible is a load of rubbish so I still enjoyed the less emotive bible teaching.

The talk I enjoyed the most was Miriam Swaffield so if she’s there week 2 then try and catch her.

Hope the rest of the week is ok and you have better weather than we did!!