All you atheist parents wondering how to broach the religion topic to your kids listen up!

[Rhubarb]

I'm a catholic and I teach my kids about all religions. I explain that some people believe different things and some people don't believe at all. I tell them what the Bible says about creation and what science says.

I tell them what my personal beliefs are but I encourage them to make their own minds up. I answer questions with "well this is what I believe but you might think something different".

I take them to Church and they know about the religion we follow, but I do encourage questions as far as I can bearing in mind their young ages.

So what I say to you is this. Don't put a barrier between yourselves and religion when it comes to your kids. Arm them with information and let them make their own minds up. If you push them a certain way, chances are that they'll reject it later on in life. Whereas if you add your support to whatever they decide to believe or not, it will give them the confidence to choose their own paths.

You may be disappointed in their choices but don't try to influence them too strongly one way or the other.

So says me.

See, now I don't understand that. Those who bring their children up with a very definite worldview in mind are being told they are definitely wrong and should have an open mind.

Is it only me that sees a logical problem with that?

"I find it disconcerting that parents can teach such narrow attitudes to their children."

But how far are parents supposed to go in the name of an 'open mind'?

Why should non-religious parents entertain the idea of there being a god anymore than parents entertain the idea that fairies are real? Do you expose your child to every religion and cult of the world? Do you give all tales of mythology the benefit of the doubt?

I have to admit that I would be very disappointed if my dd's decided to be part of any organised religion when they are older. Are you saying that your children joining a non-mainstream cult would be acceptable to you? You'd be happy with that?

Who has a definite view? Have I not said all along that I fully understand that I could be proven wrong?

I have faith that is fairly strong, but I doubt anyone, even the Pope, can be 100% in their faith. It's too difficult a thing.

What I find extraordinary is that parents are happy to spin their children tales of fairies and Father Christmas and even go to great lengths to prove something they know is not true. But the Bible get dismissed as utter nonsence when they is far more evidence of factual stuff in the Bible.

Of course you need to decide what is true and not.

But dismissing the Bible which is regarded as true by millions of people, is in my view, narrow minded. You might say that you don't believe in it, but what right have you to tell your kids that? What right have you to inflict your views on them without giving them the chance to find out for themselves?

What right do I have to tell my kids that creationism is a load of Balls? Or that all the scientists are wrong and stupid? I don't have that right. Not when it comes to such a huge and influential thing like religion or not. We are not talking about little fairy stories here, we are talking about the most varied cultural thing in the world. To just dismiss it offhand to your kids as a load of rubbish is narrow. Sorry but it is.

FWIW, I agree with you about the Father Christmas thing, Rhubarb, but I imagine many atheists have no problem with that because they consider belief in the supernatural of any kind to be part of the make-believe that is fine for children, but not appropriate for adults.

You're very liberal in your view of Faith. I'm not criticizing that, but to you, a very important part of life appears to be accepting that you might be wrong and we can't be sure etc. Therefore you are making choices in how you broach this topic with your dc based on that.

Those who do feel that you can be sure are going to raise their children with that in mind. I'm sorry, but I am utterly convinced that God exists and that Jesus died and rose again. I feel utterly compelled to raise my children with that assumption, the same way a convinced atheist will feel compelled to raise their children with their worldview.

We're all doing that - even you, Rhubarb. It just seems odd to me to say "we can't be sure, so you shouldn't act as though you are, even if you do happen to be sure"

My dds1 went to school that had a majority of muslim children, and when asked what he believed in , he said "nothing". he got teased for this.
I have the greatest respect for other peoples beliefs and have taught my children to do they same.
Everyone has their own beliefs and children should learn about all of these. It helps us have an understanding of others.
When dds1 asked why i didnt believe in god, i told him it was cos i believe in science and facts, but it was up to him what he believed in.
He said that he believed in god and asked if he could be christend, I had to explain that i wasnt in the position of doing that for him as i dont believe but if he still felt the same when he was older then he would have my support if thats what he wanted.
What i think is unfair is for my children to be made to feel ashamed for not having a religion.

I think bullying and attacking people over the shops they go to, the clothes they wear or what they believe is right out of order. Because people need to be treated with respect.

I have no problem at all with people being unimpressed with the ideas themselves, though.

SueBaroo is right, I personally think it is fine for children to believe in fairies or Father Christmas, and I know they'll grow out of it, as all children do.
If you take your children to church you are putting them somewhere where they are told that, without a shadow of doubt,God exists and does X an Y. When you pray you tell your children that God exists (otherwise who are you praying to?). I absolutely uphold your right to belief of any kind. Even Scientology, though I also hold the right to think that Scientology is utter made-up nonsense.

I don't teach my children to ridicule people who believe though.

I agree with you Suebaroo.

We are all different one way or another. So what if i dont have a religion. I respect anyone that does. I'm a adult and have made my decision not to, i just dont want to be preached at. My children will make their own minds up. I dont talk about what i believe unless im asked. I will teach my kids about other religions and then its down to them.
Its wrong to be bullied for what you believe but it is also wrong to be bullied for what you dont believe.

Sorry for rambling

Mine have been picked on too for not believing.

As for the issue of 'letting them make up their own minds' it's like this: you would not tell them the pros and cons of drugs and then let them make up their own minds would you? And the reason you wouldn't is because you would prefer them not to decide to do drugs. For us, it's the same with religion, and in some ways it could be compared to drug taking as they can both be forms of escapism for people, who for one reason or another, do not feel 100% in control of their lives/destiny. We want them to be totally responsible for their destiny, instead of passing the buck to 'god'. If they felt the need to do this, I would feel that we have failed to help them become totally self-sufficient, psychologically speaking.
I would also like to say, again, that this in no way gives them the right to laugh at or disrespect others for believing.

Can someone also explain to me why this is still a taboo subject?

If you can say that you prefer dogs to cats, or coffee to tea, why does everyone ( in RL, not MN) get weird when the conversation turns to religion? It's just another personal preference.

Gosh Caterpillar! Are you 100% in control of your life and destiny? I have never met anyone who thought that!

But the impression I am getting here is that it is NOT a personal preference. Its OK for athiests to tell their children religion is bunk, but not OK for Christians to tell their children religion is true. Where both are clearly faith positions.

My daughter has had trouble at school from other pupils as she won't blaspheme in the playground (she's 7, and we regard OMG! as inappropriate). Even a teacher would not let her tell the news story of her dedication and mum/dad's baptism. Teacher said it was too 'intense. Funny, I thought it was just Baptist!

I think most everyone has an anecdote of a time when their children or themselves were treated with disdain - I don't think it's confined to either theists or atheists, tbh.

And I think one view here is that is not appropriate for theists or atheists to teach their children that what they believe is THE truth - but it's not the only view on the thread...

Hmmm, I think harrisey has a point. My own personal view is that I do believe in God and Jesus as the son of God, I do get offended when people on Mumsnet say this is stupid and ridiculous and idiotic - as they have done. I am prepared to admit that catholicism might not be the right religion, I would never say I know everything and would never claim to be 100% right about anything.

But I do believe in God and Jesus, through research in the Bible and through personal experience.

I teach my kids to pray and I teach them stories in the Bible. But I also teach them about atheism and why people don't believe. Just as I tell dd that some kids believe in Father Christmas and that's fine for them to do so.

But one thing I cannot give to my kids is faith. That comes from within, you have to have your own experience of it.

But harrisey is right, us Christians don't understand why athiests would tell their kids that religion is nonsence, and athiests don't understand why we would tell our kids that it is true.

All I wanted to achieve by my posts is understanding of each other's positions. But no matter what I say, or how I say it, one of you will take offence at it or pick upon some little point I've said, and ignore my bigger argument which is in the OP.

So I'll bow out now thanks.

Oh Rhubarb, I really don't think anyone's taken offense - I know I haven't. I thought you started a really interesting conversation, fwiw..

Yes but to pick at my every sentence SueB! Is that really necessary? It is an interesting discussion and I hope it carries on, but I don't want to have to defend my standpoint, that's not the point of this discussion at all. When you talk about things from a personal perspective you are not saying that everyone should think or feel that way, you are only saying how you feel.

I have been criticised for believing and then criticised for not believing - all on this thread! Which am I?

But anyway, I'm a liberal and I make no apologies for that. I was glad to have the opportunity to talk to onehundredtimes and others about what they believe and how they tackle the subject of religion to their kids. But now my presence on this thread isn't needed.

Rhubarb, I'm really sorry if I offended you, twasn't my intention at all. Hard to convey that sort of thing in text, I suppose. I just read us as having a conversation, it wasn't an attack on you. Anyway, sorry again.

S'alright. I just didn't like being told that I wasn't a believer.

It is hard having a conversation about this in text. Thing is that no-one is right or wrong really. Anyway, I'm happy to leave it there.

Rhubabrb you are very much needed. More than half the time you are saying things that are stopping me being MUCH more inflammatory!!!!

hands harrisey the flamethrower

ah, go on, go on, go on....

--ziiiip---