I want to question religion/belief/faith and God but think it's going to upset someone.

[bramblina]

Why should it? Why do I feel like this? I can surely ask questions? I don't know anyone in RL who wouldn't be offended and so that frustrates me.

I just find it a bit frustrating that in this day and age people still believe that a person whom they call God can solve problems and answer questions. Perhaps he did exist one day but we know nowadays the difference between fact and fiction. Water is wet and fire is hot. Closing ones eyes and either asking aloud or in your head for help with a problem or guidance or whatever, no one, person, character or anything else is going to answer. If one "hears" an answer or receives guidance or strength it's simply from their own perception. "God" did not do anything to help.
I just don't get why folk still believe this.
"God" is not great- perhaps one day he was but nobody can live forever. He doesn't have a plan for anyone. If he can "look down" on us does that mean he can see us on the toilet? Having sex? If it were true why is there so much wrong in the world? Why does religion cause so many problems and such division?

Depends on what you're after, Im sure plenty of people are willing to discuss / argue online. Have you looked at an alpha course at all? They are run by churches and explore faith and give you the chance to ask loads of questions and debate. Usually very friendly people with great food!

As an ex-Christian the thing that makes me furious about religion is the way it has been the major driver of the oppression of women for centuries. ‘God’ the almighty- what sex? Male!! When who are the ones starting wars, killing people, in prison, men of course. Did Jesus really need all male disciples? I am so angry about the role of religion in this. A genuinely moral philosophy would have had women leading it. I do believe Jesus and other prophets’ words were valid, but why are they all men? And though their words were recorded, why were they basically ignored? It’s the biggest political spin that’s held people's minds for years.

But O.P. there are plenty of people questioning religion, especially in this country. Religious people are in the minority. You don’t need to challenge people but if they ask you can state your views honestly.

Emelene I really don't want to go to that length I just want people to waken up!!! And be realistic!
Last week I met the minister's wife at one of my kid's groups. I'd never have known she was- she was wearing a hoodie trainers shades and talking about beers at a bbq the previous weekend. Breaking the pre conceived idea there! We chatted about the kids. She told me her husband is the minister. He's not working atm because things are quite difficult, there's a lot of pressure on him, lots to do in his position, hearing everybody's problems etc and various other reasons. She said he's getting better. But it will be ok she said- God's got a plan!! erm why did he let him get in this state in the first place?? There's no plan!!! He'll have to just get a grip like the rest of us!! And obvs as it was our first meeting I couldn't just say er really no I don't think so!!! I just wanted to grab her by the shoulders and shake her!!! It's 2018!!!!

It may be 2018 but those who believe have Faith. Which is then hard for them to see round or question. But many religions have stories of believer hardship where the reward was the positive outcome in the next life. How do you think slaves in the US became believers in the slave owners God. Clever preaching and theology.

Few proper believers think that God will solve their problems. Rather it is their Faith that helps them through problems. I mean, after every tragedy its a given that religious leaders will be on the airwaves pontificating about how the deaths of so many is all part of Gods plan. And it takes Faith to accept that.

Ultimately, Christianity isn't really about a do-gooder Jesus and his Dad. It is about redemption for humanity through the horrific death of one person. God is not kind. After all, the only people the Devil killed in the Bible were done so after God gave permission. God allowed Satan to kill Job's children and servants to test Job in order to see how righteous he was. God killed a lot more people than that. If you believe the Bible anyway.

But Faith...??!! What?! We can all "believe" in something but if it isn't real then it's fictitious so therefore is a load of crap. Believing that a person(?) who lived thousands of years ago came back to life....oh do me a favour. Prayers.....that's just thoughts in one's head. But they believe it changes things. No, doing stuff changes things. Actual physical stuff like cleaning, giving, helping, making, working, contributing, being honest, respectful. Factual things which actually exist.

How how how can people believe it....??!!!

Just be nice, that's all.

"We can all "believe" in something but if it isn't real then it's fictitious so therefore is a load of crap."

I am a humanist and do not believe in the afterlife or any kind of god. But other people do. I view it as the same as people who follow any kind of celebrity fad, passing moral ideas, whatever academic "critical" theory is in vogue. Everyone has the right to do so.

As long as it doesnt impact on other people.

Some people need their faith to give a grounding and a framework to their objective morality which then compels them to do positive stuff. Others just do it because it is the right thing to do.

People meditate and prayer can have a similar benefit.

How people get through their lives is different for each person. If they have a faith and that helps then fair enough. As I say, the problems for me start when that faith is foisted on others.

Hi bramblina,
If you're interested in how beliefs change over time this website is an interesting read:

www.brin.ac.uk

Depends on your views. Having faith can make amazing things happen. Whether there is god or not some people can do amazing things when they believe their god is behind them. Live and let live I say.

Why does it matter to you what other people believe? As long as they aren't pushing you to. It's a bit like other people liking modern art, or heavy metal. I don't get it at all. However, I don't need to, it doesn't matter.

The problem lies with religion as a tool for oppression. The live and let live argument works fine until some delusional zealot decides that live my way or die is the norm. Then it's a problem of global proportions. Live and let live doesn't really cut it then.

Historically religion has been used as a tool to control the masses. It’s still doing the same job to this day.

If people are conditioned to believe in something or the idea of something over hundereds of years all down the generations then it becomes ingrained in day to day life.

Live your life, be a good person - I think that’s the only religion anyone should need to follow!!

Why do you feel you can't ask questions? I know some people would be upset if someone is questioning beliefs they hold dear and they've held for a long time, but that just means you aren't asking someone who is open minded so will defo cause upset. I'm atheist so I don't question any of it - for me god(s) don't exist. End of.

Your mind is made up, that's fine. But let's not pretend you want to engage in a debate about religion. (I say this as a lifelong atheist). Just let people get on with believing what they want. No-one's going to suddenly say "Of course Bramblina, you're absolutely right, my belief system is a load of crap."

I find that if I question the faithful they aren't offended at all. I work with a irreligious, Muslim and Christian bunch and I ask questions about evidence from the faithful. I am an atheist and find it fascinating how committed to a faith a person can be. It's odd to me! I like learning about different faith a and cultures but not follow them myself. The only way to integrate imo is to create more awareness of others.

It gives people hope to believe and have faith. I believe simply because in my darkest hours I have asked for help and things have got better. So for me why shouldn't I believe?

60sname

No-one's going to suddenly say "Of course Bramblina, you're absolutely right, my belief system is a load of crap

You are right, hardly anybody changes their mind on any issue (let alone one like religion) on the basis of a single conversation. But that doesn't mean its not worth talking about

My favourite quote on this:

It was seldom that in debate one or two evenly matched antagonists will succeed in convincing the other, but it was equally seldom that either antagonist will end up holding exactly the same position as when they started

This is why debate and discussion are so important.

Throughout time people have always believed in mysterious things and probably always will. Think of all the different religions and gods there have been. Religions that were once prominent are now extinct. Presumably in years to come people won't believe in the things they do now but have other things to believe in.
The human mind is a strange place!

Patriarchy
This is why debate and discussion are so important.

Absolutely. My point was that the OP doesn't want a debate.

60s

But hardly anyone come to a debate completely on the fence in a 50/50 position.

Nearly everybody is absolutely convinced that they are right and the other people are wrong. Its only when you debate and have your ideas challenged that you may change your mind, or at least re-evaluate things a little.

Saying that you can't engage in any kind of debate unless you haven't made your mind up yet defeats the object of what debate is for. Its supposed to be persuasive.

OP it sounds to me as if you are mixing with people who are very "in your face" about their beliefs.

There's a range in my friends and family, from atheism to full on "god will sort it out" and the easiest thing is to not discuss it.

Unless you are wanting to change people's minds - is that what is upsetting you?

I'm not quite sure what it is you're asking, OP.

You say you want to question faith, and that's a good thing, of course, and people should be happy to engage in discussion. You then seem to be more concerned that people would believe in God, and seek almost angry, certainly bemused and a little mocking that they do. So is it that you want to ask questions, or to talk about faith matters, or you want people to admit they're wrong and deluded and stupid to believe something like that in this day and age?

Why are you surprised a minister's wife is wearing jeans and shades?

You'll probably find there are a lot of people of faith quite happy to discuss, as long as there's respect on both side - not necessarily respect of the belief, but certainly of the person.

Happy to talk faith stuff, if you'd like

Have you done much research yourself? Not just looking on humanist or anti religious sites but Christian ones too. You could go to a church (with an open mind) and sit through a few services, talk to a vicar or go along to an Alpha course (the whole thing)?

christianity.org.uk/

From reading previous posts, it's interesting that it's fine for atheists to foist their views on to people but not ok for Christians to even mention God in a sentence!

Madhairday "Why are you surprised a minister's wife is wearing jeans and shades?"

I found it odd that OP was surprised by that as well.

You have every right to believe or disbelieve what you like and to question your beliefs. Thoughts are not yet policed. It sounds like you can't easily articulate your feelings in your real life, perhaps because you're knitted into a religious community. If so you can keep your counsel and your thoughts private, or share them if you like, perhaps seek out groups which aren't centred on religion or church settings so that you can speak more freely. Maybe write down how you feel in a journal or why not start an anonymous blog to process your thoughts?