When did Jesus actually die?

[PoloPrincess]

Can someone point me in the right direction?
We know that Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and he rose from the dead on Easter Sunday.
Then what happened? When and how did he finally die?

I need to RTFT but a little way through amused by @PatriarchyPersonified idea that biblical scholars wouldn't be atheists/agnostics

My dad was one... 😁

I actually ignored my dad and followed my crazy evangelical mother into the Christian faith, as a result I had many Christian friends and a few chose to go and study Theology. Virtually every one of them had a crisis of faith soon after beginning their studies. I find that really interesting and in his book the sins of scripture- bishop Shelby Spong talks about this being commonplace amongst Christians who decide to become biblical scholars

Pizza

Your right, you need to read the thread. We covered that issue again not so long ago.

Ship of Fools has good discussion boards with a broadsheet spectrum of Christians and some atheists who enjoy a good debate. Maybe PP can start a historical Jesus discussion over there. I don't think that one is a classified as a dead horse over there.

Ship of Fools had an excellent historical Jesus/mythical Jesus thread a few years ago. Lots of very knowlegeable people, not all of them Christians by any means, contributed.

I’m so glad that a) Ship of Fools is still going and b) it currently has “Current chance of rapture: 82.2%” on its homepage Had some great discussions on there back in the day.

They have new boards so I've been over there for the first time in ages. Looks very familiar.

If we're doing appeals from authority, here's an appropriate one...

I've been enjoying the rash of Hawking memes on social media, so lovely to think that a man whose main achievements couldn't be fathomed by most of us even when put into popular form in A Brief History of Time, should become in death the purveyor of inspirational platitudes.

The other thing about that quotation is that it betrays Hawking's ignorance of philosophy. Understandable, seeing as his field was astrophysics.

What an arrogant reply

Niminy

What philosophical argument in particular proves Hawking wrong in the quote above?

I didn't say he was wrong, merely that he doesn't seem to know that there are other ways to think than what boils down to rough and ready empiricism.

However, a quotation taken out of context is always liable to look foolish. I expect he had specified what the problem is that might be explained simply by the non-existence of God but that bit hasn't been quoted.

And even Stephen Hawking said there is probably no Heaven or afterlife because ultimately even he couldn't say for sure.

Obviously it's not something you can prove. But the fact that the probability is minuscule is a good indication.

He didn't say there probably is after all...

No he didn't, but that's his opinion. He was bold enough to say there was no God, and not that there was probably no God. So why not they same for Heaven or afterlife?

The probability isn't really minuscule though - there either is or there isn't.

So you think there might be a heaven but no god? Weird.

It's not a 50:50 probability, but any stretch...

I don't, no.
That's my whole point on his quote. It's strange. There is probability in both, yet he couldn't bring himself to admit probability in God as it wasn't what he wanted to believe.

I do think people like the thought of an afterlife, without the thought a God though.

Of course it's 50/50, there either is or there isn't.

If there is a God, I think he’ll be having a good old confab with Stephen Hawking right now, feeling nothing but affection for someone who has such a deep appreciation of the mathematical beauty permeating his creation.

I suspect there would be some good-natured joshing too.

agreed, Outwith.

Just because there are two options, it doesn't make it 50:50.

You're obviously not one of Professor Hawking's students!

That's how I view it though personally. Sort of like a coin toss.
No matter how religious I am, I'm not clouded by the fact that what I believe may not be the case either, because regardless of my faith, it is still a possibility. But if that is the case then I'll be dead, and won't even know or care.

It is what it is, no one can prove it either way.

Er, yes, I think you are very clouded. The odds on a god existing are minute.

Namechangerbob

Oh dear. The odds are not 50/50.

If I told you there was a china teapot currently orbiting the sun near Jupiter, that was too small to be detected by modern instruments, you probably wouldn't believe me.

But why not? After all, I can't prove the teapot does exist, but you can't prove it doesn't. Therefore the odds of its existence are 50/50 by your rules?

No. They are obviously not. It's the same for the existence of God.

And if Christians are right, Hawking won't be having 'a good old confab, with lots of joshing' with God.

He will be being tortured horribly for all eternity

Please don't dress horrible belief systems up as something nice and kind. They aren't.

Bertrand Russell's teapot analogy. He hadn't tasted the tea inside.

And if Christians are right, Hawking won't be having 'a good old confab, with lots of joshing' with God.

He will be being tortured horribly for all eternity

Hang on a second. Your position is that all Christians secretly believe Hawking is going to be tortured for eternity in hell, but we’re lying about it to sound ‘nice and kind’? And you’re the only one who can see through the propaganda?