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Christian chat thread continued

997 replies

Dutchoma · 16/06/2017 07:26

A place to share and chat about our funny (and not so funny experiences) in and out of church.
Did anyone say coffee? That would be good Brew

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BroomstickOfLove · 10/07/2017 20:45

Oh, congratulations!

Dutchoma · 10/07/2017 21:17

Congratulations DoubleGloucester I hope both you and DancingUnicorn will have uneventful pregnancies and darling babies at the end of it.

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DancingUnicorn · 10/07/2017 21:30

Thanks lovely Oma. I'm sorry, I only found this thread the other day after posting on the prayer thread for a few months!

Hi!

Doublegloucester · 10/07/2017 22:15

Thanks folks SmileSmileSmile

Madhairday · 11/07/2017 08:54

Oh congratulations Double! Flowers wonderful news! How are you feeling?

Me and nickel are next door neighbours at new wine!! What are the chances! Looking forward to seeing her :)

Madhairday · 11/07/2017 09:26

I shall be blasting Shine Jesus Shine from my caravan especially for you, nickel. I feel I should locate a GK cardboard cutout and locate him outside, too.

Grin
Doublegloucester · 11/07/2017 17:56

Sounds like you two will have fun!! Grin

Not too bad yet thanks...I am starting to go off tea already though Confused

Niminy · 11/07/2017 20:15

I went off tea during my second pregnancy. It was a disaster. Also, weirdly, plain water made me feel sick.

Tiggles · 11/07/2017 20:29

Congratulations Double! And it is a really boring bench or psalter of bishops. I'm sure we could come up with something a bit more exciting. I think a mitre of bishops would be quite topical Grin.

BroomstickOfLove · 11/07/2017 22:01

I couldn't drink tap water in my second pregnancy, either. And I still dislike it, and spend a fortune on mineral water. My mum gets her water from a spring near her house and it is lovely.

EddSimcox · 11/07/2017 22:54

ooh how exciting double! Glad you are feeling well. I remember feeling sick all the time, and the exhaustion, my God. Glad you are not too bad Grin

I liked ginger beer and peppermint tea iirc. I think it's the milk in tea that you go off, or it was for me.

A consternation of bishops? Wink

The vestments thing has been really interesting though. What do you all think of that?

BroomstickOfLove · 11/07/2017 23:02

I hadn't realised before the Synod that vestments were compulsory.

Niminy · 12/07/2017 07:30

Vestments: it's one of those changes where nothing will change. Basically lots of Evangelical clergy don't like vestments and don't agree with them and have been not wearing them for, well, ages. This change means they're no longer breaking canon law.

I went to a church where nobody wore robes for ages. That was my local church when I became a Christian. It went with a lot of other things - the Eucharist wasn't important, there was a completely open table (i.e. Anybody could receive), we didn't really notice the Church seasons, there was quite a bit about penal substitution in the songs and preaching.

When I started training I got moved to a church much higher up the candle - everybody robed, including servers and verger, much more Eucharistic, more seasonal, different theological emphasis. It took me about a week to know that this was where I was at home in church-ology.

The no robes thing has a lot going for it, if you like that kind of thing. But for me vestments are important. When I put on my alb (white robes), stole (scarf) and chasuble (big cloak in hing that goes over the top) I feel that I have put on Christ and that I don't represent myself, but something that is much greater than me. It doesn't feel 'look at me and my gorgeous clothes', rather it feels that my individuality is absorbed into the robes that I wear and the place I stand behind the altar. It's me but not just me: it's an aspect of the mystery that's at the heart of the Eucharist.

And I also like worship to be beautiful and vestments to me are part of that. We give back to God the best that we are capable of. But that doesn't work for everyone and I do get that for some people vestments feel like 'look at the clergy and how important they are!'.

DancingUnicorn · 12/07/2017 07:37

A very beautiful way of looking at it and expressing it niminy.

Dutchoma · 12/07/2017 07:40

That's really lovely Niminy. Puts a whole new meaning on 'putting on Christ'.

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Madhairday · 12/07/2017 08:30

That is a beautiful way of describing it niminy and I'll think on it. I have to say, being a rather low end of the candle type, that I find robes off-putting rather than helpful, and I think I need to explore more why that is. I've got used to them, dh wears them for communion services but not services of the word. He's not keen either tbh. He doesn't want to be seen as somehow removed or special - he is the minister, the leader, but not any more 'Christ' than others. I don't know - I do get that the whole sacramental thing is a glorious mystery and do appreciate the ceremony and liturgy within that but I've always found robes to jar with me. There doesn't seem a precedent for them in the NT early church through obviously was in the OT tradition, but that was when only the priest can go into the holy of holies and the ceremonial aspects were very important and to be followed to the letter - because it was before Jesus came and bridged that gap, and made it possible for us all to enter God's presence, a kingdom of priests, holy and righteous.

However, I don't struggle with priesthood per se, obviously Grin so I'm not sure where my discomfort comes from. It's really interesting to explore, though. You all know I've always struggled a little with higher forms of church - but really do seek to understand and appreciate, and love that we are all so different.

Your words are making me think, niminy, and that's always good! Flowers

Niminy · 12/07/2017 09:57

I can see all that too, MHD, especially about priests not being removed or special, simply part of the priesthood of all believers. I tussle with myself a lot between a conviction that there is something g set apart about being a priest and a conviction of the priesthood of all believers. And I take the point about the very early church not doing vestments - although they do go quite a long way back, even so.

In some ways it feels like two kinds of parties - one where you come as you are and who you are, and one where you make it special by dressing up to celebrate. Both are good.

Niminy · 12/07/2017 10:36

Or it's 'come, just as you are to worship' vs 'o worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness' Wink

Minimusiciansmama · 12/07/2017 11:06

Hi,
I just discovered this thread and wanted to say hello. I've been on here a few months, mainly on another thread, but I thought I would stop by. I'm a single mum to a little monkey and work for our church. Anyway.... hi!

Doublegloucester · 12/07/2017 16:41

HI, Minimusiciansmama! Hot drink and a biccie?

Re vestments, I like a nice alb and stole but not too keen on chasubles, not sure why, though they are used at my church.
Perhaps it's the shade of green, ours is very slimy!

Anyway apologies for that very untheological comment...!

Dutchoma · 12/07/2017 16:55

Very welcome Minimusiciansmum. I see that DoubleGloucester has provided you with a drink and a biscuit.

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Minimusiciansmama · 13/07/2017 07:42

Always time for a cuppa & biccie (especially if you beat the kids to the chocolate ones!) thanks for the welcome x

EddSimcox · 13/07/2017 12:58

Hello mmm Smile

niminy made me laugh Grin

I love a bit of costume and theatre in a beautiful church. Also a candle in a bare portacabin would do. I don't really get why there are been quite such a lot of hooha over the vestments thing. Collars though I do like. I've seen so many conversations happen because one person is visibly a priest - they open doors.

Madhairday · 13/07/2017 15:45

Completely agree with that Edd. Dh says his collar has opened up so many doors and conversations. People approach him in the street and call him 'father' Grin he doesn't wear it on his day off though!!

Niminy - yes I get the parties analogy, but just to be nitpicky if you said it was a dress up party wouldn't that be an invitation to everyone to don robes? Grin but I get that it's the priest who celebrates so there is something special about that - I really do. But theres something in me which struggles with it. It might actually be to do with some of my upbringing as a clergy child. I got bullied because my dad 'wore a dress'. I guess it's still sore and I have a block against it. Also (forgive me for the witter, I'm finding it helpful to think out why I have a problem) when my dad became the vicar of a church in a very deprived area, the church was dying. People living in the area just didn't get the culture of it and felt excluded - it was so outside their experience, being far more (as they saw it) for the 'middle classes' (this is what folk actually said rather than my bias). We made a lot of changes because we felt God leading us to and there were lovely praying people in the congregation who wanted to, and became much more accessible to the people around us. The church grew and thrived. My parents wrote a book about it - it's quite a story. In fact it's about to go on kindle as I've been formatting it for them as it's out of print now (it was published with Kingsway.)

I'm not saying though that churches who value robes etc never speak to the culture, but that in that situation a change was so desperately needed to welcome the folk there. This may have contributed to me having an anti robe stance for a good while. I've mellowed a lot now though, but there's still something in me fighting a little. I'm not a fan....

But I'm a fan of God and the church in all its wonderful and varied forms, so in that case I am a fan really, I suppose... Smile

Welcome minimusiciansmama!

EddSimcox · 15/07/2017 17:21

I have to think up some church outreach ideas before tomorrow morning. Anyone done anything good?

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