Atheist's corner

[ollieplimsoles]

Can I post this here?

Had a look through some of the other pages and couldn't see anything similar, so starting this off, don't know if ill get many replies but we'll see.

Basically a thread for non believers, skeptics and people who have left religion/ escaped religious cults and turned to atheism.
To chat, friendly respectable debate, and to ask questions. People of faith obviously also welcome!

Einstein was not a religious man, he said he does not believe in a personal god, nor does Steven hawking- he's another one theists like to try and get 'on side'

I love the story of the catholic priest who theorised the big bang theory. I think its a travesty he wasn't awarded more for his theories and the mark they made.
He famously was devout catholic but he didn't believe in mixing science and religion ie- using science to try and prove biblical events and the existence of biblical figures.
He didn't believe they were in conflict (I disagree there).
He was also instrumental in getting the pope at the time to stop embarrassing himself a bit by mentioning creationism in public and the pope agreed.

The originator of the Big Bang theory was a Catholic priest. He was both religious and scientific.

His religion did not leak into his scientific studies. He said the theory was neutral.

Einstein was often misquoted, or quoted out of context.

I think he was quite clear on this quote though;
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

On the festival of zombie jesus LOL apparently he is making a come back in the next series of 'The Walking Dead'.

The originator of the Big Bang theory was a Catholic priest And he used science to come up with his ideas. His prayers to a god gave him ZERO ideas.

Einstein was not religious, why are theists so desperate that they keep trying to 'kidnap' clever peoples ideas. Is it because they are desperate?

"His prayers to a god gave him ZERO ideas."
How do you know that Walking?

It's pretty obvious! His science strongly denies what the bible teaches.

So either there is no god, and he got his ideas from his scientific study, or a god does exist, but he/she/it is nothing like the one portrayed in the bible.

I know which my money's on...

We dont know. Nobody does, not even a priest praying can know if its god...or magic pixies, Smurfs, unicorns or teapots.
We can ask pretty searching questions though, (instead of settling for 'we just don't know).

How do we know that it wasn't the god of Catholicism who told all those priests to fiddle innocent little kids. Maybe he tells the pope he's special, and he has to wear that stupid fucking hat as well.

I'm an atheist. My mum was a Catholic and I went to church a bit in my teens. I took instruction classes and the priest said if I said certain prayers before my first communion it would cut down the time I spent in purgatory. I thought' that's a bit mad'. And now it's all so absurd to me that I struggle to respect anyone with a belief. There's a creationist zoo near me which infuriates me. I also struggle with my kids 'ethics and philosophy' course at school, precious little ethics or philosophy taught, just rote learning about religious beliefs and making them put forward arguments for and against evolution/science/big bang, I didn't have any of this crap when I was at school

Where exactly are you guys getting your information about LeMaitre from? Because as far as I know he did find praying helpful wrt his ideas and he did not feel any conflict between his faith and his science. Oh and he asked some very searching questions and then went searching for the answers. He came up with the Big Bang theory you know.

Einstein was absolutely not religious.

@campfiresmoke I am very confused by your examples. My DH comes from a very conservative Pentecostal background. The majority of his relatives are preachers or heavily involved in the faith and I know hundreds of people in church(multiple churches) because of family ties over the years. While I agree that not all Christians believe the Bible is literal, I would say the vast majority of them DO. You must be around some very liberal Christians to be thinking the majority hold these "accepting of gays, bible not the word of God" sort of views.... because most people I know in the church do not agree with you.

I am in no way talking down to you or Christianity as a whole, but I think your statement about this is very wrong.

if almighty god wanted to forgive our sins, WHY DIDNT HE JUST FORGIVE THEM?
This sums up the sort of argument against belief in god for me. It makes no sense whatsoever. The more i learn, the less I understand how seemingly intelligent humans believe the bible. I assume that they just sooooo want to believe, they accept it as the truth and ignore all the nagging doubt/evidence/ logic etc.

I have my own beliefs and do myself believe in God, but I have chosen to step away from organized religion and churches. I found them to be extremely dogmatic when it came to doctrine, interpretation, etc. The very personal and constantly difficult experience with religious relatives only solidified my view of this. I can't deal with the opinionated/judgemental talks all the time- it is rather stressful and contrary to the same message of Grace and love that's they preach. To top this off I've found that religious folk are very good at manipulating you.. "oh well God says that doing this is good, so of course you should spend more time with me or you are not a loving person" type of guilt tripping manipulative nonsense. I have heard it all.

I agree that it is humans who are fallible. We all have our own agenda, even when we aren't always fully aware of it. So I'd rather lead myself on my own spiritual journey than follow someone who is no more reliable than I am.. Especially when I can trust my own motivations a great deal more than a religious leader. Blind leading the blind. We're all blind and the people I trust most are the ones who are humble enough to admit that.

Because as far as I know he did find praying helpful wrt his ideas and he did not feel any conflict between his faith and his science.

I said both those things in my post
Just because someone finds praying helpful doesn't mean that a) god exists and b) he's talking to you...

Lisa

That was exactly like my views a while ago and your absolutely right, its probably going to be impossible to find a belief system that fits 100% with your ethics and morals, there is always something lurking somewhere that doesnt sit right.

You mentioned though that everyone has an agenda, even oneself? I realised this too, and asked myself- what is my agenda your continued belief in a 'god' ?

Why should I be held accountable for what some people did thousands of years ago?
And more disgustingly why would a human sacrifice help?

No Ollie, you said nothing about LeMaitre's faith in your post except possibly "we don't know. Nobody does...". Which again isn't true. He's a fairly well known and documented 20th century figure in the field of science.

Read properly.

I love the story of the catholic priest who theorised the big bang theory. I think its a travesty he wasn't awarded more for his theories and the mark they made.
He famously was devout catholic but he didn't believe in mixing science and religion ie- using science to try and prove biblical events and the existence of biblical figures.
He didn't believe they were in conflict (I disagree there).
He was also instrumental in getting the pope at the time to stop embarrassing himself a bit by mentioning creationism in public and the pope agreed.

said upthread. I know who he was.

As well Dione, if you go back and read my posts

we don't know. Nobody does

Was in response to your post aimed at another poster who said (paraphrase) "his praying to god to NOTHING to help him with his scientific theories"- you asked how they knew that.

Also, when you said this Oh and he asked some very searching questions and then went searching for the answers. He came up with the Big Bang theory you know
I suppose thats in response to my post when I said 'we can ask some pretty searching questions though' I thought that was quite clear in my post that I was talking about the questions we could ask about if prayer helps people.

Its also like you're deliberately taking my posts out of context

He's a fairly well known and documented 20th century figure in the field of science

I find it very insulting to scientists that spend their lives studying to have their theories reduced to, "well god must have told him".

First off Georges Lemaître did not propose the 'big bang' theory he proposed the 'hypothesis of the primeval atom'. He did not claim it was the result of a prayer, he demonstrated it was the result of his lifetimes study, in physics, mathematics, astrology and cosmology. As PP has said he decried the pope when he co-opted the idea for religious purposes.

In the past 100,000 years there has been no verified knowledge that has come via prayer. If prayer brought knowledge then one of the worlds popes would be the cleverest person alive. None of them are.

So until we have evidence otherwise we will keep gods in the same bucket as pixies, faeries, and unicorns.

I think it's possible to be religious and work in a scientific field - I know that is the case because I know a few religious scientists.

But they're all quite clear that it's separate, and they all follow quite a dilute form of their religion - it seems to be more about a personal spirituality, and they seem keen to keep "the god of the gaps", while all the while being sort of sadly resigned to the fact that in the future, the gaps will close...I struggle to understand why they bother, really. I suspect it's mostly a hangover of childhood belief, finding some comfort in their belief, and a sense of tradition.

That said, I don't get on board with attempts to highlight the religiousity of previous generations of scientists as proof of divine inspiration, or as proof that science needs god or whatever. For hundreds of years of scientific exploration, it's not like you had much of a choice to not believe, was it? Religion was the only game in town. And much more than this, I can't think of any scientific breakthrough that hasn't at one time or another been opposed, blocked or held back by religion. It makes me sad when I imagine where humanity could be right now if not for the dark ages and for the impulse of (most) religions to hold back progress. For the most part, religion gets on board with science reluctantly and late. If at all. I know it comes in for some stick, but I find a lot to like in the idea of non overlapping magisteria.

Except we do know that he found praying helpful. You didn't know because you have not tried to find out. Walking's statement is incorrect. I am not taking posts out of context, people seem to be making stuff up without even attempting to find stuff out.

Walking, who has said "well god must have told him"?

Christ Dione, I just posted above how you took my posts out of context and tried to challenge me on something you hadn't bothered to read I had already said.

I don't know the point you are trying to make, but you are clinging on to whatever it is like a dog with a bone.

Yes a catholic priest made on awesome contribution to our understanding of the universe
So what if he did say 'praying helped him'

Does it prove there is a God?

Pooch, I completely agree with you wrt non overlapping magisteria. Religion and science are very different and as evidence shows,it is possible to be an outstanding scientist with or without faith.

people seem to be making stuff up without even attempting to find stuff out

Exactly what have people made up?